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Frankie81
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2005, 04:40:07 pm »
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Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:04:01 pm   
have u ever seen an animal spare some other animal out of pity if it plans on killing it? Some animals eat their own young. Female spiders eat the male spiders after they mate... should we eat men after we screw them? Animals can't transfer their anger, frustration, happiness, sadness, or any such emotion into anything creative or useful, as humans can. ... no, i deffinately think that we are superior.
Great, you've just mentioned a couple of differences between humans and animals. I still don't get why we have to abuse other species because of this, though.


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:18:45 pm   


Quote from: Frankie81 on April 17, 2005, 04:10:29 pm   

Oh, please don't ask or this will turn into just another religious thread.
well, i've seen at least 3 anti-bush threads, yet no one complains about those being abundent...
These are issues that a lot of people have to deal with every day. If you want a thread about religion make one, or ask someone to reopen the other one.


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:18:45 pm   
I want to see an animal get up and protest for my life to be spared. Then i shall have as much respect for them as i do people.
Okay, then the least thing you can do is to stop eating tuna. Dolphins have rescued people's lives numerous times, they're very smart. Last year a group of people went for a swim in New Zealand and were suddenly surrounded by dolphins. The guy tried to get out of the circle as he didn't know what this was about but the dolphins just forced him back in. Then he saw a shark coming towards them. The dolphins stayed with them until the shark was gone, which was a total of 45 minutes.
So please, Jess, stop eating tuna, cause many dolphins regularly die in tuna nets (is that the correct word??)


Quote from: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 04:21:42 pm   
Making an animal suffer is one thing. I'm not for animal cruelty. I just don't think shooting an animal for food is even a comparison for how terrible it is to kill a human being out of rage.
If you're not for animal cruelty, where do you go to get your meat? Cows, Chickens, anything you get at a fast food restaurant isn't just shot and immediately served. They mostly go through a long way of suffering before they end up in fast food and other restaurants, grocery stores etc.


Quote from: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 04:21:42 pm   


Quote:
Oh, please don't ask or this will turn into just another religious thread.

Actually, I refrained from commenting about that. Why couldn't you?
Because you must've sent it while I was already replying to frodomyhero.
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2005, 04:47:40 pm »
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Quote:
If you're not for animal cruelty, where do you go to get your meat? Cows, Chickens, anything you get at a fast food restaurant isn't just shot and immediately served. They mostly go through a long way of suffering before they end up in fast food and other restaurants, grocery stores etc.
Well, they might, but I don't really like to think about stuff like that. A lot of the meat me and my family eat we shoot ourselves. I've never really felt bad about it before. Anyways, I think hurting or killing an animal for sport is bad. I just don't think killing one for food is.

Quote:
So please, Jess, stop eating tuna, cause many dolphins regularly die in tuna nets (is that the correct word??)
Yuck. I hate tuna. I don't eat it anyway.

Quote:
Because you must've sent it while I was already replying to frodomyhero.

Well . . . there was a total of 7 minutes between the post I made about that and the one you sent . . . I said I had other reasoning for not being a vegetarian, but I wasn't going to comment about it because everyone would get their underwear in a knot about it.
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2005, 04:47:59 pm »
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Quote from: Frankie81 on April 17, 2005, 04:40:07 pm   


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:04:01 pm   
have u ever seen an animal spare some other animal out of pity if it plans on killing it? Some animals eat their own young. Female spiders eat the male spiders after they mate... should we eat men after we screw them? Animals can't transfer their anger, frustration, happiness, sadness, or any such emotion into anything creative or useful, as humans can. ... no, i deffinately think that we are superior.
Great, you've just mentioned a couple of differences between humans and animals. I still don't get why we have to abuse other species because of this, though.
o, yes... because that's exactly what i said. I said, "Let's abuse all the animals we can before we kill them! WOO HOO! i love seeing animals tortured! \m/!" Frankie, don't put words in my mouth. I've already said like 3 times that i didn't agree with animal cruelty.


Quote:


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:18:45 pm   
I want to see an animal get up and protest for my life to be spared. Then i shall have as much respect for them as i do people.
Okay, then the least thing you can do is to stop eating tuna. Dolphins have rescued people's lives numerous times, they're very smart. Last year a group of people went for a swim in New Zealand and were suddenly surrounded by dolphins. The guy tried to get out of the circle as he didn't know what this was about but the dolphins just forced him back in. Then he saw a shark coming towards them. The dolphins stayed with them until the shark was gone, which was a total of 45 minutes.
So please, Jess, stop eating tuna, cause many dolphins regularly die in tuna nets (is that the correct word??)

I don't eat tuna, frankie.

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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2005, 04:59:29 pm »
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Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:47:59 pm   
o, yes... because that's exactly what i said. I said, "Let's abuse all the animals we can before we kill them! WOO HOO! i love seeing animals tortured! \m/!" Frankie, don't put words in my mouth. I've already said like 3 times that i didn't agree with animal cruelty.
Uhm ... have you even watched the video? Or what was the video about? (maybe I just remembered a different one).
I've been talking about this the whole time ... the animals DO get tortured before they're killed!! If they weren't I would probably not be a strict vegetarian! I'm not putting words in your mouth, just saying if you do support the meat industry, you support animal cruelty (and once again, I do not mean to say that they're cruel because they kill them but because they torture them. Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this? )
There are farms that treat animals nicely but those are very few.


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 04:18:45 pm   
I don't eat tuna, frankie.
Good


Quote from: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 04:47:40 pm   
Well . . . there was a total of 7 minutes between the post I made about that and the one you sent
You seem to forget that English is not my native language. I usually need more time to reply to posts.
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm »
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FINALLY! I'm not alone in saying that I don't see why anyone can go veggie!


Quote:
So please, Jess, stop eating tuna, cause many dolphins regularly die in tuna nets (is that the correct word??)

No. The tuna I eat is labeled DOLPHIN FREE.


Quote:
... what makes us so superior?

1. We're smarter.
2. We've invented technology to survive better. You see this lil' box you have in front of you in which your reading what I'm saying? Yeah. That wasn't invented by a polar bear.


Quote:
"Let's abuse all the animals we can before we kill them! WOO HOO! i love seeing animals tortured! \m/!"

HECK YES! I'LL GO GET MY SHOTGUN AND SOME BUD LITE.  I hate it how people think that if your not a vegetarian, then your automatically a sick person. Oh, I eat meat. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2005, 08:44:46 pm »
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Quote:
1. We're smarter.
2. We've invented technology to survive better. You see this lil' box you have in front of you in which your reading what I'm saying? Yeah. That wasn't invented by a polar bear.
Haha . . . that's funny. LOL. Those are very good points.

Quote:
HECK YES! I'LL GO GET MY SHOTGUN AND SOME BUD LITE.  I hate it how people think that if your not a vegetarian, then your automatically a sick person. Oh, I eat meat. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

LOL. Well, I don't think people go and think people that eat meat are sick people, necessarily. They just don't agree with us, that's all. I think they have difficulty realizing that animals and people are completely different, and that eating meat does not mean you support animal cruelty.
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2005, 09:42:31 pm »
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Quote from: Frankie81 on April 17, 2005, 04:59:29 pm   

Uhm ... have you even watched the video?
uhh... yes...


Quote:
just saying if you do support the meat industry, you support animal cruelty (and once again, I do not mean to say that they're cruel because they kill them but because they torture them. Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this? )
How many times do i have to say that just because i eat meat doesn't mean i approve of the way they are treated before their slaughtered? If you feel so convicted over it that you refrain from eating meat, i respect that... but it's not for me.

Quote:

There are farms that treat animals nicely but those are very few.

I know of at least 4 right off the top of my head... they're privately owned, but still have about 600 hogs per farm. --sure, it's not a huge number... but that's quite a few slices of bacon.

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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2005, 05:58:40 am »
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Quote from: The Shortest Name Ever. on April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm   
FINALLY! I'm not alone in saying that I don't see why anyone can go veggie!
Did anyone here say that you all have to become vegetarians right now? I'm the only one in my family who is a strict vegetarian and I applaud them if they get their chicken from a private farm every once in a while because you know there's usually no cruelty going on.
Once again, for those of you who seem to skip all other posts, animal cruelty does not involve simply killing an animal for eating (at least not in my opinion), but it does involve cruel treatments that happen on all those farms before they are killed.
Here you can see and listen to what happens on some chicken farms: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=bea_kfc&Player=wm&speed=_med
In my opinion, anyone who eats at KFC automatically supports animal cruelty because that's what happens on their farms. This doesn't only happen at KFC, though, and that's why many people become vegetarians.


Quote from: The Shortest Name Ever. on April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm   

Quote:
So please, Jess, stop eating tuna, cause many dolphins regularly die in tuna nets (is that the correct word??)
No. The tuna I eat is labeled DOLPHIN FREE.
LOL I'm sorry but are there seriously dolphins in some tuna cans or what did you intend to say? You obviously misread my post. Of course dolphins don't end up in tuna cans, they do end up in their nets though. When fishermen go out to catch tuna they more than often find dead dolphins in their nets. So no matter whether it is in the can or not, it dies anyway.


Quote from: The Shortest Name Ever. on April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm   

Quote:
... what makes us so superior?
1. We're smarter.
2. We've invented technology to survive better. You see this lil' box you have in front of you in which your reading what I'm saying? Yeah. That wasn't invented by a polar bear.
Why do you need to repeat the differences of humans and animals and name that as a reason to support animal cruelty? Animals are still animals, not trash, and that's how they're treated at those big farms.
I still don't understand why we cannot grant an animal the right to at least live like an animal. Why exactly does that mean we have to cram hundreds of chickens into so little space they can hardly move anymore? Have you ever seen polar bears voluntarily do that? Have you ever seen chickens do that in some grandmother's backyard? Probably not.
I also haven't seen any animals killing a lower animal by first purposely torturing them and kill them later.


Quote from: The Shortest Name Ever. on April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm   

Quote:
"Let's abuse all the animals we can before we kill them! WOO HOO! i love seeing animals tortured! \m/!"
HECK YES! I'LL GO GET MY SHOTGUN AND SOME BUD LITE. 
Getting your shotgun and shooting an animal is not abusing it before it dies, or what were you planning to do with it before shooting?


Quote from: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 08:44:46 pm   
I think they have difficulty realizing that animals and people are completely different, and that eating meat does not mean you support animal cruelty.
I beg to differ for reasons mentioned above, but again, it really depends on where you get your meat. If you hunt it yourself I personally think that is a better way than to get it at the grocery store where the meat most definitely comes from farms as described above.
I live in a city, the only option I have is to get meat at a grocery store, because there aren't any private farms around. If I did that I would support some industry that most likely abuses the animals before slaughtering them, so I decide not to spend my money on their products.
Even if there was a private farm around here I probably still wouldn't eat meat but that's for totally different reasons that don't involve tortured animals


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 09:42:31 pm   

Quote from: Frankie81 on April 17, 2005, 04:59:29 pm   
Uhm ... have you even watched the video?
uhh... yes...
Maybe I remember a different one, I don't know. I can't download it right now.


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 09:42:31 pm   
How many times do i have to say that just because i eat meat doesn't mean i approve of the way they are treated before their slaughtered?
To me, somebody who spends money on those farms' products also supports their cruelty even if they don't approve of it. I chose to stop supporting them.
I do realize that you and Kari must live in the middle of nowhere so there are probably greater chances for you to decide where to get your meat. If you only get it from private farms where they're treated in a more respectful way, great.


Quote from: Jess_B on April 17, 2005, 09:42:31 pm   

Quote:
There are farms that treat animals nicely but those are very few.
I know of at least 4 right off the top of my head... they're privately owned, but still have about 600 hogs per farm. --sure, it's not a huge number... but that's quite a few slices of bacon.
Most people don't get their meat at private farms though, otherwise the big industries would see no reason to produce so much meat
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 06:00:29 am by Frankie81 » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2005, 06:46:52 am »
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Alright, everyone. Calm down. I know there are a few members posting in this thread that like to debate and argue, but please guys, just let it go.

I'm a strict vegetarian. I don't eat any meats at all. There are numerous reasons for this. I don't like the way meat tastes or looks. I don't agree with animal cruelty and veins and blood just plain gross me out. Take into consideration, some people become vegetarian for health reasons, too.

I'm not saying that I want you to all become vegetarians. That is purely your own choice, but if you feel inclined to research the conditions in which animals are treated, then this is a very good site. http://www.veganoutreach.com/whyvegan/behindthewalls.html Some of you may not care, and I don't understand that, but we're all different people.

Animals and humans do share the planet. I do believe humans are superior in many ways, but that does not give us the right to torture animals. I don't have a problem with killing animals in a humane way for food and other products, but when it is done cruelly, that's when it's not cool.

Please guys, can we stop the sarcasm and attacks here? I don't want this thread to be locked, like so many have been recently. When you've said what you want, just move on and get over it.

Frankie - That's an amazing story about the dolphins. I had no idea they were so intelligent.
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2005, 08:00:10 am »
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Quote from: Le Deux Machina on April 18, 2005, 06:46:52 am   
Animals and humans do share the planet. I do believe humans are superior in many ways, but that does not give us the right to torture animals. I don't have a problem with killing animals in a humane way for food and other products, but when it is done cruelly, that's when it's not cool.
Thank you, this is what I've been trying to say all along, I just had a hard time putting it as well as you did, I suppose.
Are you just a vegetarian or a vegan?
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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2005, 09:15:59 am »
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Quote:
1. We're smarter.
2. We've invented technology to survive better. You see this lil' box you have in front of you in which your reading what I'm saying? Yeah. That wasn't invented by a polar bear.
Haha . . . that's funny. LOL. Those are very good points.

There was a time the earth was occupied by animals before the human race excisted.
It took millions of years for the human race to develop. Isn't it true that the human race develop from apes? At the beginning the human lived like an animal under animals. There where stronger and bigger animals around. The first humans only lived from plants. Later they started hunting and because of that they made tools to hunt the animals. Because of the meat the brain developed more. The plant eating species vanished.
But I think the human race its not nessessary smarter.
When the human gets chased it can't run as fast as a lion or tiger. His legs are not made for walking like that of a horse or antilope. A human can't fly like birds or insects. A human can't see or smell as good .His teeth are blunt and little which he can't use for hunting. He has no horns, hoof, claws or antlers which he can use as weapons and for selfdefence. Nore has the human a furcoat or thick fat layes to protect him from the cold. If you compare those things you will see the human is a weakling.             
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 09:17:25 am by Etaeb OLC » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2005, 10:45:28 am »
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Quote from: Etaeb OLC on April 18, 2005, 09:15:59 am   
The first humans only lived from plants. Later they started hunting and because of that they made tools to hunt the animals. Because of the meat the brain developed more.
What? In order to make the tools to hunt they already had to be kinda smart. What do you mean the brain developed because of meat? Where did you get that information?


Quote from: Etaeb OLC on April 18, 2005, 09:15:59 am   
But I think the human race its not nessessary smarter.
When the human gets chased it can't run as fast as a lion or tiger. His legs are not made for walking like that of a horse or antilope. A human can't fly like birds or insects. A human can't see or smell as good .His teeth are blunt and little which he can't use for hunting. He has no horns, hoof, claws or antlers which he can use as weapons and for selfdefence. Nore has the human a furcoat or thick fat layes to protect him from the cold. If you compare those things you will see the human is a weakling.
What you describe is physical strength and anatomy. Even though we might be physically weaker this has nothing to do with intelligence. A fish that builds something to be able to breathe on land would be a really smart one. However, animals are simply not able to do all the things we do.
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2005, 12:17:10 pm »
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Ok. Just to break up the tension here....I always wanted to know about people that were once meat eaters and turned into a vegetarian. Do you feel healthier? Do you have more energy? I remember Orlando Bloom saying that he need to add meat into his diet sometimes to feel better.
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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2005, 12:50:25 pm »
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Ok it must be my bad translation.
Its from my sons Was ist Was "Der Urmensch" book page 4
I just write it in German,
Der Mensch der Urzeit
Es gab Zeiten, lange Zeiten , in denen die Erde nur von Tieren bewohnt und der Mensch noch nicht vorhanden war. Und es hat dann noch  lange gedauert, bis der Mensch zu dem wurde, was er heute ist.
Wissenschaftler haben nachgewiesen, daß der Mensch von Vorfahren abstammt, die dem Tierreich angehörten. Im Laufe vieler Millionen Jahre entwickelte sich aus den tierischen Vorfahren der Mensch. Anfangs war er- wie alle Tiere- von seiner Umgebung abhängig. Er war kaum mehr als ein Tier unter Tieren. Es gab größere und stärkere Tiere, die ihm seinen Lebensraum streitig machten. Aber der Mensch war intelligenter als sie.
Die ersten menschenähnichen Wesen ernährten sich vorwiegend von pflanzlicher Kost, sie ergänzten sie mit Fleisch und jagten Beuteltiere. Gerade die Jagt war es, die ihren Verstand schärfte und sie veranlaßte, sich Werkzeuge zu schaffen. So kann man annehmen, daß die jagenden Allesfresser sich weiterentwickelten und als unsere Vorfahren zu betrachren sind, während die menschlichen Arten, die bei der Pflanzenkost verharrten, ausgestorben sind.

sorry for those who have trouble reading my comment

I am against animal cruelty, thats why I said animals are not as stupid as we think. I was a vegetarian for 10 years by the way. I don't eat much meat now. To be honest I 'm thinking of going back to be a veggie. I also have a lactose intolerance so I don't eat cows milk products. eg. no chocolate, chocolate bars, ice cream, butter, cream, cakes the list is long. I can't eat tuna it gives me integestion.
One thing is so horrible. Here in Europe they closed lots of a abattoirs in order to cut cost. So lots of animals get transported 1000 of miles across Europe to get slaughterd in abattoirs which slaugter for less money. Some animals never survive the transport. They get squeezed together and are hot and can't lie down. Its very cruel.




« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 01:19:28 pm by Etaeb OLC » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:Veggies!
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2005, 09:15:36 pm »
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Quote from: Frankie81 on April 18, 2005, 05:58:40 am   


Quote from: The Shortest Name Ever. on April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm   
FINALLY! I'm not alone in saying that I don't see why anyone can go veggie!
Did anyone here say that you all have to become vegetarians right now?

I think you misread what I was trying to say. No, I don't think that your trying to convert me. Someone said (I think it was Kari_Grace) that they don't see how anyone can go veggie; and I was simply agreeing with them.




Quote from: The Shortest Name Ever. on April 17, 2005, 08:40:59 pm   

Quote:
... what makes us so superior?
1. We're smarter.
2. We've invented technology to survive better. You see this lil' box you have in front of you in which your reading what I'm saying? Yeah. That wasn't invented by a polar bear.
Why do you need to repeat the differences of humans and animals and name that as a reason to support animal cruelty?
Quote:

I don't support animal cruelty. I was simply answering your question. Eating meat does not mean you support animal cruelty.
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