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  Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
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   Author  Topic: Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.  (Read 4608 times)
HerMajesty
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Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« on: June 08, 2004, 07:13:28 pm »
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The A+F Site and Forum board has always been a place for members to voice their concerns about rules and policies.  Whenever a thread is made about a specific problem a member is having, the staff always tries its best to address it. Additionally, we appreciate any honest feedback about the rules and policies that is offered (so long as it's not purposely hurtful, personal comments.)

However, some of you may feel that your concerns won't be listened to, or that you can't say what you truly think. Perhaps it because you fear that you will be banned for speaking out against the rules -- or maybe you don't want to make a huge deal out of it.

Therefore, this is your chance to let loose.  Say whatever you want about the rules, the enforcement of rules, or general board policy.  However, please do not attack any moderator or administrator personally; if you do so, your post will be modified or deleted.  (In essence, no "So-n-so sucks because without her, the board is a lot more fun!")

You can say whatever you like here, however you want to say it, without fear of being banned.  You will not be banned or punished for anything that you say here.  Please simply be mindful of personal attacks. 
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2004, 07:32:06 pm »
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I have one but its kinda stupid...I don't get why for anyone wanting to get into theNC-17 section of fan fics (if thats what its called i can't remember)  you have to be have to be 17 (i get that part)and have 100 posts I mean I really want to read them but I'm not on the boards enough to write about something. I mean i'll come on see if anyones pmed me and then check the board if theres anything interesting i'll read it but i've been on here for about 3 month ( i think) and i've only posted i think 38 times! thats so not enough I think it should be lowered or if you think the person is responsible enough you (mods) should let them in? yes or no (explination please and thanks if no)
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HerMajesty
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2004, 07:32:46 pm »
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OK, I will start.

What do you all think about the "three strikes, you're out!" system? Is it a good idea? Do you think strikes are handled out too easily?

Remember, this is about all rules -- general rules, fan fic rules, and fan art rules.


Jenna:

The reason why the limit is one hundred posts is because without having read many of your posts, the staff can't gauge how old you are. We thought that one hundred was enough to get a feel for how old you truly are.

It would be nice to simply trust that someone is telling the truth about his or her age, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case -- too many people have lied about their ages. The main way we ended up catching these members is by viewing their posting history and finding out that by what they said, they couldn't have been over seventeen.

Now, in the past we have had a few people request access when they had not yet met the posting requirements. In those cases, we were able to confirm the true ages (e.g. a member on this board requested that her husband be granted access.) Since we no longer accept requests and just grant access when we know someone is above seventeen and has enough posts, that won't happen anymore.

However, you bring up a good point about lowering the post count. What, in your mind, would be reasonable? Do you think fifty posts is enough?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 07:41:24 pm by HerMajesty » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2004, 07:58:27 pm »
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I think it's awesome of you guys to open a thread like this. That way people will be able to say what they think, seriously without being afraid of getting banned. *thumbs up*

Anyway, since a couple of weeks or so you guys made a new thread with the new rules. I've read them and that made me wonder about some things.

When you made the changes there came a link in red on the right side on the top of the page, saying "If you don't want to get banned read this..." In there you put a couple of rules, for example that you must make a post with more than 10 words, no caps, no excessive punctuation or smilies, no netspeak and that it's best if you use spelling check. My first reaction was a shock, really. I mean, is it seriously such a big a deal when you don't post "neat" posts? Is getting banned the right thing to do, because one doesn't write posts the way you like? Even though you give them a couple of warnings, is it worth it to ban a person because of this? A forum is supposed to be a fun place for people to come together and talk about their interests. Is it really that necessary to make the board so "uptight" about the way you type?

But then I read the topic of the thread, and it said something totally different than the red link. It said "If you don't want your posts deleted read this..." Now there's a big difference between getting banned and getting your posts deleted. If you're just talking about deletion, okay, I kind of get your point. But why, I wonder, do you put up a link saying "If you don't want to get banned read this..."? I just don't get it. Is it to "scare" the members? Because to be honest with you, it does seem that way.

And just for the record, no offense to any of the Mods here. I hardly know you guys, so I don't even have a reason to attack you. 
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2004, 08:13:22 pm »
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@Sammie:  those rules, in the "Don't want to get banned/Don't want your posts deleted" thread apply in the worst case scenarios only.  They're just general guidelines, not meant to be enforced to their extremes.

We don't delete a post just because someone said "ppl" or "ur," for example.  It's only when people consistently or exclusively post in that way, that one of us might send her a PM to clarify the netspeak rule.

I use LOL, OMG, and LMAO all the time.  That's netspeak just like "ur" and "ppl."  So it would be unfair (and mind-numbing) for us to attempt to eradicate netspeak completely.  This is the internet and people correspond differently than they do when they write formally.  We understand that.

However, when a member has blatantly disregarded the guidelines, we contact them and try to clarify that rule for them -- and yes, we do threaten banning.  That is a credible but rarely implemented threat.  Thus far, no one has ever been banned solely for using netspeak (and I can't imagine it happening in the future).

Only once was a member temp banned for netspeak -- but she also consistenly double- or triple-posted.  Numerous attempts to have her follow the rules failed.  Since the temp ban was lifted, we haven't had to contact her about anything.

Hope that addresses your concerns.

Edit:  To be frank, sometimes we try to put something in the red notification just to catch your eye.  When it was "Don't want your posts deleted?" the thread got a couple dozen fews in a day or so.  When I changed it to "Don't want to be BANNED?" it got hundreds!  That there's just human nature.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 08:22:11 pm by - » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2004, 08:35:16 pm »
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What Mad says is true: when we use "ban" in that context, rather than saying "delete"/"modify", we find that a thread gets much more page views. That is certainly understandable (banning is a harsh sentence), but I didn't realize that using that term would give off the wrong impression about the rule enforcement. Thanks for bringing that point up.

As Mad said, the rules about netspeak and misspelled words are guidelines; they definitely don't have to be followed exactly. (If you use "u" occasionally, that's fine. But when your whole post is: "omg did u her wut he said? I wuz sooo excited but idk wut to think. u kno?" it is increasingly difficult to understand, and that's where we draw the line.)

Of course, no one has been permanently banned for netspeak -- in all honesty, even if someone were a repeat offender, I don't think we would end up banning them. Although it IS a rule, it does not need to be severely enforced as say, the rule about respecting others.
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2004, 09:30:46 pm »
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I don't get why we can't get off topic in a thread, but yet there are massive threads that are off topic alot of the time. I've had my post deleted before because I went off topic, and yeah that's understandable. But making a thread that goes off topic a lot, shouldn't that thread be deleted?
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2004, 09:31:42 pm »
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i kinda have a problem with the R and NC-17 rule. i understand u'd want to protect ppl from explicit sexual contact... but i am writing a story right now, that i would feel more comfortable to rate "R" for violence and such... but if i did that, because i'm under 17, i coudlnt' access my own fic.  lol... it's kinda irratating. i've been taught to "show, don't tell" when writing... like, give imagery... but i feel i have to restrain that to keep it pg 13. i wouldn't just go on being REALLY greusome or anything... my goal is not to make people sick, just make the person feel like they're there.

ok, i think i've made my point. overall, i agree with most of the rules. For instance, the "no double posting rule", i agree with it. and the not alternating caps.

Do you think maybe people could be allowed to write so many words in caps... like, DID YOU READ THAT ARTICLE IN SO-N-SO MAGAZINE?? i understand if a paragraph was written in caps, it could be irritating... but maybe just a sentence... just to get a point across.

Ok, my last thing and i'll shut up. The whole excisive smiley thing... i agree people shouldn't go 
... that's just dumb... but there's a diff between that and giving like, "double kisses" or "double smileys" just doing like : O yeah...    ok, i'm done... lol, this thread is a little nerve racking... i'm afraid i'm gonna get in trouble!  lol, ok.

Thanks, btw, for making a thread where we can express our oppinions about the rules. 
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2004, 09:40:23 pm »
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Quote from: Jess_B on June 08, 2004, 09:31:42 pm   

i kinda have a problem with the R and NC-17 rule. i understand u'd want to protect ppl from explicit sexual contact... but i am writing a story right now, that i would feel more comfortable to rate "R" for violence and such... but if i did that, because i'm under 17, i coudlnt' access my own fic.  lol... it's kinda irratating. i've been taught to "show, don't tell" when writing... like, give imagery... but i feel i have to restrain that to keep it pg 13. i wouldn't just go on being REALLY greusome or anything... my goal is not to make people sick, just make the person feel like they're there.

While I think we can all understand the frustration that many of you may have with this particular rule, it was implimented after a LOT of discussion and for some valid reasons.  The issue was first brought up because there is a possiblity for legal ramifications.  The chances are small, but all it takes is one really upset parent and then we have a huge problem on our hands.  NC-17 stories to a certain extent can be considered porn, on a certain level.  Therefore, not permitted to be seen by all eyes.  So things went into seperate forums for that reason.

But also there was author concern.  As an NC-17 author myself, I did feel some level of concern about the age level of the people who had access to my material.  Call me old-fashioned, call it whatever you will, but I was simply not comfortable knowing that a 12 or 13 year old was reading an explicit sex scene I wrote.  I know that some other authors voiced this concern as well. 

I hope this addresses some of your concerns.  And thanks to everyone for being open, honest and respectful
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 10:21:51 pm by EJW2003 » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2004, 10:17:36 pm »
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Quote from: EJW2003 on June 08, 2004, 09:40:23 pm   


But also there was author concern.  As an NC_17 author myself, I did field some level of concern about the age level of the people who had access to my material.  Call me old-fashioned, call it whatever you will, but I was simply not comfortable knowing that a 12 or 13 year old was reading an explicit sex scene I wrote.  I know that some other authors voiced this concern as well. 


yes, i completely understand that. i was writing a paper for school once that was particuarlly violent, and i did not want my little cousins to read it. But i do not write things with explicit sex scenes. i understand that allowences can NOT be made for one person, but do you think that perhaps a new thread could be created? one for people that wish to create something that is not appropriate for 11 and 12 yr olds to read, but completely ok for a person that is 15 (i'm gonna say 15 because i am 15 and am able to handle violence and moderate sexual behavior) and older to read. and create guidelines for what could be in this forum. ... perhaps like a "PG-15" forum... if there is such a rating. It would solve my problems, and i'm sure the problems of several others. at least i could put more than "he died" and feel like i wasn't jeapordizing my chosen rating of PG-13  ...

Thanks for listening
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2004, 10:34:43 pm »
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Quote:
But also there was author concern.  As an NC-17 author myself, I did feel some level of concern about the age level of the people who had access to my material.  Call me old-fashioned, call it whatever you will, but I was simply not comfortable knowing that a 12 or 13 year old was reading an explicit sex scene I wrote.  I know that some other authors voiced this concern as well. 

Though, some 12-13 year olds can handle that stuff. I think it should be by maturity level. If the mods think that someone is "mature" enough to get into the NC-17 section then they should. But that's just me.
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 12:07:03 am »
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Quote from: That is so fetch on June 08, 2004, 10:34:43 pm   


Quote:
But also there was author concern.  As an NC-17 author myself, I did feel some level of concern about the age level of the people who had access to my material.  Call me old-fashioned, call it whatever you will, but I was simply not comfortable knowing that a 12 or 13 year old was reading an explicit sex scene I wrote.  I know that some other authors voiced this concern as well. 

Though, some 12-13 year olds can handle that stuff. I think it should be by maturity level. If the mods think that someone is "mature" enough to get into the NC-17 section then they should. But that's just me.

It just can't work that way. Firstly, no matter how mature a person seems online, it doesn't always mirror their true personality. Basically, we cannot determine who is really mature enough to read adult material. Plus, if we let one or two pre-teens into the adult forum, soon their friends will want to be allowed in, because they think that they are mature enough. Eventually, half the board will want in - and the purpose of the adult board is defeated.

The fact is, many pre-teens think they are mature, when they really aren't. 12, 13, 14, etc year olds still have a lot of growing up to do. I've been there, I know.

In my opinion, we are being generous with allowing 17 year olds in. Here in the US, the age is 21 to view such material, and in the UK I believe its 18 (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 12:08:08 am »
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One of the fan fic moderators will hopefully give you a more detailed explanation, if you feel this doesn't suffice.

1.  Expansion of the PG/R/NC-17 ratings system to include NC-15, etc.

Although the staff would, in theory, like to have more specific ratings for fan fics, we cannot possibly implement them here.

Movies tend to be categorized as either G, PG/PG-13, or R.  In some countries, there are NC-15 and NC-16 ratings.  However, those scripts are written by professional writers and are screened by government (or regulated) agencies to ensure their appropriate ratings.  A&F cannot possibly specify the difference beween a PG-13 story and an NC-15 one.  Even if we could, it would be impossible to apply those standards  to stories.  Our authors are amateurs and could not possibly conform to more complex standards without making everyone more confused and upset.

Already, much of the language and content of the public fan fic sections is above what I would call PG-13, i.e. a lot of it does extend to NC-15, in terms of language, violence, drug use, etc.  That is not ideal, but again, we don't have a professional staff of editors to ensure the accuracy of ratings -- we just go by our collective subjective interpretations.

2.  "Mature" people under 17 should have access to NC-17 stories.

This really isn't about maturity, fortunately.  There are plenty of adults on who aren't what I'd call "mature," yet my personal opinion of them shouldn't affect their ability to view fan fics.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on who's reading this), this is one issue which I'm pretty sure is inflexible.  There are legal and ethical ramifications in allowing minors to view adult material.

Edit:  Sorry, I missed this.


Quote from: Jess_B on June 08, 2004, 09:31:42 pm   

Ok, my last thing and i'll shut up. The whole excisive smiley thing... i agree people shouldn't go 
... that's just dumb... but there's a diff between that and giving like, "double kisses" or "double smileys" just doing like : O yeah...    ok, i'm done... lol, this thread is a little nerve racking... i'm afraid i'm gonna get in trouble!  lol, ok.

Don't worry about a few extra smilies here and there.

It's something like, "Woowwww  !!!!!!!" that we care about.  Double kisses and double smilies are fine.  Just please don't go nuts or spaz out, and we have no complaints.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2004, 12:19:42 am by - » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 12:20:25 am »
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Quote from: Jess_B on June 08, 2004, 09:31:42 pm   

Do you think maybe people could be allowed to write so many words in caps... like, DID YOU READ THAT ARTICLE IN SO-N-SO MAGAZINE?? i understand if a paragraph was written in caps, it could be irritating... but maybe just a sentence... just to get a point across.
It's perfectly fine to write a few sentences here and there in all caps. As you know, it's just annoying when people chose to write all their posts in caps.


Quote from: Jess_B on June 08, 2004, 09:31:42 pm   

Ok, my last thing and i'll shut up. The whole excisive smiley thing... i agree people shouldn't go 
... that's just dumb... but there's a diff between that and giving like, "double kisses" or "double smileys" just doing like : O yeah...    ok, i'm done... lol, this thread is a little nerve racking... i'm afraid i'm gonna get in trouble!  lol, ok.
I agree. You can use enough smilies to get your point across  - 2 or 3 or even 4 in a row are acceptable if you need to. However, it's unnecessary to use a smiley everyother word, or put about 8 in a row.

Believe us, no one will get in trouble for using caps or smilies - we know when they're necessary and when they're just used to be annoying. 

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Re:Opinions & Concerns About the Rules (ALL Rules.) -- Please read and reply.
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2004, 12:23:54 am »
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I have never seen so many smilies in an A+F Site and Forum thread in my life.      (<-- Double smilies!)
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