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   Author  Topic: New pope  (Read 2211 times)
[[Megsie]]
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Re:New pope
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2005, 02:39:45 pm »
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Quote from: Solskie on April 19, 2005, 02:37:04 pm   

You know, I think I understand both points of view and I see it both ways. Its not easy to accept most of what the Catholic Church teaches and stands firm on. Sometimes, even priests don't agree but, the way  I see it, this my faith and I need to learn more about it before I could get to question it, which is why I struggle sometimes.



Yes, I can agree with that.  I struggle too and I know that everyone disagrees with some things within a faith. 
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Re:New pope
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2005, 02:40:26 pm »
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Quote from: Megs~The Band Geek on April 19, 2005, 02:36:23 pm   


Quote from: Cristiel on April 19, 2005, 02:32:25 pm   


Quote from: Megs~The Band Geek on April 19, 2005, 02:18:37 pm   


Quote from: Solskie on April 19, 2005, 02:13:40 pm   

Yeah, I know what you mean, Cristiel. I don't agree with some of JP II stands too. But, for me personally, that's the Catholic Church's firm stand. And further more I'm born one, so it's really difficult. I find I struggle with it and also with what it means in that respect.  Its complicated in other words!   

Oh, good a fellow Catholic.  I understand what you're saying.  It can be hard. 
Cristiel, not to sound rude, but clearly you must not understand the role of the pope if you are looking for someone who is for gays and things of that nature.  The Catholic Church stands firmly against those things.  If there was such a cardinal who believed for those things, well, that would definitely be odd.  Rather impossible in the Catholic church.  Believe me, I am Catholic.

I'm not asking the Catholic Church to promote gay people, I just want them to accept them instead of seeing them like "sinners" or "bad people". Being gay is not an illness.

In Belgium, we do have a very progressive cardinal, Godfriend Danneels, who's pleading for a role of women in the church (which doesn't mean that they have to be allowed to become priests) and openly speaks about the acceptance of anticonception. Just because he knows that yearly, a lot of people die because their Church forbids them to use condoms. I do have a lot of respect for our cardinal because he knows what goes on in today's world and doesn't want to pretend that aids doesn't exist.

Well in this faith, being gay is considered a sin, therefore they are called sinners.  But we are all sinners in different ways now aren't we?  Women do have roles in the church.  There are nuns, teachers, all kinds of things.  I don't see what more they need to do.  Okay, Catholics (most) are against the use of condoms, but it is for an entire different purpose than aids.  It is looked at like abortion; A.K.A. the prevention of life.

Rai, I'm sorry, but any change to the Catholic Church equals change to the entire faith.

So you agree with gay people being called sinners? And you would never use anticonception in your life?

I think you're pretty naive when you say most Catholics are against the use of condoms. It's the church who's against it, not the people. I'm 24, I know lots of people from my age and I know nobody who's against the use of condoms.
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Re:New pope
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2005, 02:41:54 pm »
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I'm not a catholic, so I'm not too impressed....

Ratzinger: As was to be expected. I can't say I'm enthousiastic, he's the most conservative of them all, but I guess it will just mean that nothing will change for the next few years. After all, he has been one of the bigshots behind the scenes for a long time. I hoped to see a more progressive pope, but I don't expect too much from the Catholic church in that respect. Ratzinger seems a bit of an 'in between pope' looking at his high age and the 'young' age of some other cardinals high on the nomination list. But that's just my impression...

And hating that people doubt the pope allready? Come on, isn't that a bit strong? I thought there was nothing wrong with people voiced their opinion on the cardinals' choice. If you don't agree with his views, doesn't mean you think he can't do the job...

Fun fact: a non-italian pope again! Before JPII the last non-italian pope was Adriaans Florenszoon Boeyens from Utrecht, aka Pope Adrianus VI. And that was in 1522-1523.
hehehe, I had to throw in some history, cause I'm nasty like that...
(but the last german pope was allready mentioned)
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Re:New pope
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2005, 02:47:23 pm »
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Quote from: Míriel on April 19, 2005, 02:41:54 pm   

I'm not a catholic, so I'm not too impressed....


And hating that people doubt the pope allready? Come on, isn't that a bit strong? I thought there was nothing wrong with people voiced their opinion on the cardinals' choice. If you don't agree with his views, doesn't mean you think he can't do the job...


No, not from my view it isn't too strong. It's just that this is a big deal and perhaps it should be taken more seriously.  I call this respect.  It's fine that others voice their beliefs and opinions, and I am surely going to voice my own, just as I have been doing.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 02:48:26 pm by Megs~The Band Geek » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:New pope
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2005, 02:50:26 pm »
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Quote:
Anyway, the church has changed it's doctrine and customs a few times in history. The main faith in Catholicism is believing in Jesus and his sacrifice, and the message of Catholicism is to respect and love all people. No one is suggesting this change. But there are outdated ideas in the Catholic doctrine that should change with the times and if they do it will not affect the central faith.


thank you!

I know of course this discussion can go on and on for ages, because everybody has his own opinion, and nobody is going to change that. I just wanted to share mine but now i just go on with my life and with doing what i belief to be a good catholic .

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I say...is it too much to ask for both?

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Re:New pope
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2005, 02:50:30 pm »
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No, I don't think the Church hates gay people. It's not that. Its the sin that is hated, not the people. I think maybe the whole stand has sometimes been misunderstood.
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Re:New pope
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2005, 02:51:25 pm »
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So, What are you saying? Sorry, I just don't get your point exactly


Edit:directed at megs:
No, not from my view it isn't too strong. It's just that this is a big deal and perhaps it should be taken more seriously.  I call this respect.  It's fine that others voice their beliefs and opinions, and I am surely going to voice my own, just as I have been doing. 
« Last Edit: Today at 02:48:26pm by Megs~The Band Geek »

« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 02:52:27 pm by Míriel » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:New pope
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2005, 02:55:33 pm »
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Quote from: Solskie on April 19, 2005, 02:50:30 pm   

No, I don't think the Church hates gay people. It's not that. Its the sin that is hated, not the people. I think maybe the whole stand has sometimes been misunderstood.

But what is exactly the sin in being gay?
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Solskie
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I say...is it too much to ask for both?

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Re:New pope
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2005, 02:56:03 pm »
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Hey Miriel! you used to post in the JLC, didn't you? correct me if I'm wrong!  LOL are you asking me that? or to megs? I'm confused.

PS. Cristiel..Well, it's like if you know that something is a sin and you do it anyway, then it's considered a sin. What sin is, are actions that are against the order of human nature, I believe. Here's a qoute I found from Catholic. com. I think it explains it better than I can. 

Every human being is called to receive a gift of divine sonship, to become a child of God by grace. However, to receive this gift, we must reject sin, including homosexual behavior—that is, acts intended to arouse or stimulate a sexual response regarding a person of the same sex. The Catholic Church teaches that such acts are always violations of divine and natural law.

Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 03:05:01 pm by Solskie » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:New pope
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2005, 02:57:51 pm »
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Quote from: Megs~The Band Geek on April 19, 2005, 02:28:18 pm   

Well okay, but the majority of the Church is conservative in most ideas.  When the idea of looking at women as the 'lesser or weaker race,' you can't be talking about women not being aloud to become priests or something of that nature are you?
Weren't there women priests in the catholic church at some point? 
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Re:New pope
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2005, 02:58:34 pm »
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Quote from: Míriel on April 19, 2005, 02:51:25 pm   

So, What are you saying? Sorry, I just don't get your point exactly


Edit:directed at megs:
No, not from my view it isn't too strong. It's just that this is a big deal and perhaps it should be taken more seriously.  I call this respect.  It's fine that others voice their beliefs and opinions, and I am surely going to voice my own, just as I have been doing. 
« Last Edit: Today at 02:48:26pm by Megs~The Band Geek »



Alright I am just saying that I want it to be seen to others that don't find it to be a big deal that it really is.  As in it is important in our history.  I didn't mean to sound rude throughout this discussion, it's only my strong beliefs.

Solskie:  I definitely agree there.  It's different than what many think.

Artanis:  I see your beliefs in this too.  I apologize to you if I seemed rude, again, it's my strong faith.  I will go on just as you will with my beliefs as I always have.
Cristiel: The sin in being gay in the Catholic Faith is that it is not in God's original plan for us all.  Adam & Eve will take you back to that.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 03:00:44 pm by Megs~The Band Geek » Report to moderator   Logged

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Re:New pope
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2005, 03:00:03 pm »
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Ey solsk! Yep, JLC, guilty as charged. I'm leading an insanely busy life at the moment  with an insanely instable internet connection (lame excuse my lack of posting) And I meant megs, not you. You people are posting way to fast for me...
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[[Megsie]]
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Re:New pope
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2005, 03:07:23 pm »
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Well everybody I am out of here.  That's quite enough debate for me.   To wrap things up, just let me say I am so very excited about our new pope.

Ta!
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Míriel
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Re:New pope
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2005, 03:10:21 pm »
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Ok, ehm let it be clear that I respect the catholic faith and understand it is a big deal to people. I'm, just not terribly impressed, wich shouldn't be mistakenly taken as disrespect.



Quote:
There was a woman pope at one point, they only discovered it when she became pregnant. Bit of a random point there.

Well, Rai, they're actually still debating if that is true. My professor told me recently that at the moment they think the story of pope Joan is probably not true, but they're not sure (by 'they' I mean historians)
Funny: It is said they discovered it not only as she was pregnant, but she gave birth travelling, so she had to sit in a chair with a hole in it. Insane story, I know...
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Re:New pope
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2005, 03:23:00 pm »
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Quote from: Míriel on April 19, 2005, 03:10:21 pm   



Quote:
There was a woman pope at one point, they only discovered it when she became pregnant. Bit of a random point there.

Well, Rai, they're actually still debating if that is true. My professor told me recently that at the moment they think the story of pope Joan is probably not true, but they're not sure (by 'they' I mean historians)
Funny: It is said they discovered it not only as she was pregnant, but she gave birth travelling, so she had to sit in a chair with a hole in it. Insane story, I know...


Yep, I heard that. My history teacher says he'd prefer to believe it's true because he's a fan of the bizarre. lol.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 03:23:23 pm by Rai » Report to moderator   Logged
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