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  The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
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   Author  Topic: The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread  (Read 6668 times)
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2005, 10:39:46 pm »
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Tolkien modeled Sam after a "batsman" in the British army. These were enlisted men assigned to officers as aides, and were known for their loyalty, even to dying for the officer to whom they were assigned. He referred to them as, "So much better than I."

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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2005, 04:17:29 am »
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I love the relationship between Frodo and Sam, they are so cute together. It's for this reason i don't really love the way that Pater has taken in the ROTK when Frodo, Sam and Gollum are in Cirith Ungol. I don't love when Frodo ban Sam. Their relationship is to strong for me, and so Gollum mustn't broken this relation.

And I love Sam, more in the book than the movie. I think this is for the love he has for Mister Frodo.
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2005, 06:30:06 am »
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I loved reading all your comments about Frodo and Sam.


Quote from: Celebrian on November 07, 2005, 01:52:25 pm   
Well, one of the main differences in the movie, was that they had to compress the timeframe and leave out a lot of stuff before the hobbits were traveling.  With Frodo leaving immediately, there really wasn't time or opportunity to have done all that planning or to have sold the house.  And, as much as I think it really does matter to the story in the book, it was one of those things that was pretty easy to leave out of the movie without it causing problems of understanding or anything.  In the movie, the sadness comes from jumping up and leaving everything he's known suddenly and with minimal preparation and it also moves the story along.

I feel like I'm rambling and saying very little, so that means i should just stop here. 

I think you're completely right, there was no time for the house sale etc. in the movie so they just left it out and I also agree what you said about it being important in the book, it works just fine in the movie. Thanks Celebrian.

Two more differences that I have noted is 1) Merry and Pippin entering the book much later, and in fact Merry and Pippin seem less close in the book (at the moment) and 2) The movie Gandalf seems much more kindly and warm, he shoots off the fireworks for the children but the in book he doesn't. And the friendship between Bilbo and Gandalf seems more apparent in the movie.

It feels so good to be able to discuss and talk about my thoughts.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 06:34:49 am by Carina » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2005, 04:45:43 pm »
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I noticed that, too, Carina.  You really see Gandalf and Bilbo's friendship more clearly in the book than you do in the movie. 

Also, at least so far, Merry and Pippin seem more mature and responsible and less mischievious than they are in the beginning of the movie. 

Is Rose mentioned in the beginning of this book?  I missed that part if she is mentioned.

Also, I love the comparison Tolkien used of Sam being like a batsman in the British army.  Thanks for sharing that with us, Story. Sam gave up so much to go with Frodo.

I also like the point Story made about Tolkien's hero's being humble, reluctant heros.  I, personally, like this kind of hero. Very different than most modern day fictional (and real) heros.
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2005, 06:08:57 pm »
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Quote from: Rose on November 08, 2005, 04:45:43 pm   

I noticed that, too, Carina. You really see Gandalf and Bilbo's friendship more clearly in the book than you do in the movie. 

Which do you prefer? Or do you think both work fine just the way they are?

Also, at least so far, Merry and Pippin seem more mature and responsible and less mischievious than they are in the beginning of the movie. 

Oh yes, that's true.
Remember the fireworks...


Is Rose mentioned in the beginning of this book?  I missed that part if she is mentioned.

Hmm, as far as I remember, I don't think she is.. (but I'm not entirely sure).

Also, I love the comparison Tolkien used of Sam being like a batsman in the British army.  Thanks for sharing that with us, Story. Sam gave up so much to go with Frodo.

Yes, I also really liked that.
Dear Sam.


I also like the point Story made about Tolkien's hero's being humble, reluctant heros.  I, personally, like this kind of hero. Very different than most modern day fictional (and real) heros.

A true hero!
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2005, 09:01:31 pm »
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This is my third reading of LOTR and there is something I've wondered about since my first reading.  We all accept that Frodo is Bilbo's nephew, but I can't figure out why there is a reference to Frodo and Bilbo being cousins, too.  Here are various references.

Prologue, last paragraph of Part 3 --
...How much or how little he [Bilbo] revealed to no one, not even to Frodo his favourite nephew.....

Chapter One, first page --
....But he [Bilbo] had no close friends, until some of his younger cousins began to grow up.  The eldest of these, and Bilbo's favourite, was young Frodo Baggins.....

Chapter One, seven pages after the above citation --
....Secondly, to celebrate my [Bilbo] birthday.  Cheers again.  I should say: OUR birthday.  For it is, of course, also the birthday of my heir and nephew, Frodo.....

OK.  Can anyone explain to me why in Chapter One on the first page, Bilbo and Frodo are referred to as cousins? 
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2005, 09:38:43 pm »
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Actually, if you look at the family trees in the appendices, Frodo is not his nephew he is Bilbo's cousin on both sides of the family.

To quote the Gaffer: "So Mr. Frodo is his first and second cousin, once removed either way."  I think they refer to nephew because of the age difference, but that is not actually correct.

I also agree with all the points Rose and Carina were agreeing on a couple of posts up. 
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2005, 10:00:35 pm »
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Quote from: Celebrian on November 08, 2005, 09:38:43 pm   

Actually, if you look at the family trees in the appendices, Frodo is not his nephew he is Bilbo's cousin on both sides of the family.

I did, and that's why I was wondering why Tolkien kept referring to Frodo as Bilbo's nephew.


Quote:
To quote the Gaffer: "So Mr. Frodo is his first and second cousin, once removed either way."  I think they refer to nephew because of the age difference, but that is not actually correct.

OK, I guess I can buy that.  There was a large age difference.  It would explain why Frodo is referred to as Bilbo's nephew.
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2005, 11:30:45 pm »
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Great question, Yeux.  I had not caught that Frodo was referred to as both Bilbo's nephew and his cousin.  But I think Celebrian point is correct...it was probably becaause of the age difference.


Quote from: Carina on November 08, 2005, 06:08:57 pm   


Quote from: Rose on November 08, 2005, 04:45:43 pm   

I noticed that, too, Carina. You really see Gandalf and Bilbo's friendship more clearly in the book than you do in the movie. 

Which do you prefer? Or do you think both work fine just the way they are?


I think I actually prefer the book on this.  It really helped to understand Gandalf and Bilbo's friendship a bit better.  Which do you prefer?
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2005, 12:04:26 am »
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I have to agree.  Because of the age difference Bilbo was more an uncle to Frodo than a cousin.  I'm really enjoying everyone's comments/questions here.  I tried to read the prologue, but I'm ashamed to say I just skimmed through it and got right down to the story.

I have a vague understanding of hobbits, so I thought I'd just go straight to chapter 1.  I have to say that I am quite enjoying it, now that I know I don't have to return the book in 3 weeks.
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2005, 10:08:59 am »
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Ok, I can clear up the uncle/cousin thing. Bilbo was actually Frodo's cousin by blood, but it is hobbit tradition for an ADOPTED child to refer to his adoptive parent as "Uncle" or "Aunt".

I wish I could tell you where I read this, but I have read so many reference books I couldn't afford sitting in the floors of bookstores, I couldn't BEGIN to guess! LOL

Now that i can afford them, I don't find as many good ones. I have most of the HOME books but i still want "The Peoples of Middle-Earth" and a couple of others.

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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2005, 01:48:01 pm »
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The adoption information is really interesting, Story.  I had never heard that, but it makes a lot of sense.   

That is another example of how complete and deep Tolkien's world is and how that adds depth to the story (as I said earlier with reference to the prologue).  It's amazing how easily we can talk about Middle Earth as a real place with various customs and history and quirks despite the fact that it all came out of Tolkien's imagination and is really only described in a fairly small number of books.
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2005, 01:54:45 pm »
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SO easy that sometimes I got too far. I have made a hobby of hobbits and have written (am writing) a history of the hobbit people. (Yeah, I admit it. I'm a geek!)  SO many times when was researching, I would come to a battle or another event and want to know something about it. I'd find myself thinking, "I should go to the library. That has to be recorded somewhere."

OK, reality check, Rach! LOL No, it doesn't have to be recorded because it NEVER HAPPENED! LOL All we have is whatever Professor Tolkien has written, but there is so much of that and it is SO REAL, that we tend to get caught up and lose, for a moment, the fact that it isn't...fact.

OK maybe it's just me? Now you are all SURE I'm crazy!LOL

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Rach
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2005, 02:43:01 am »
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You're not crazy at all, Rach.  It's a sign of Tolkien's brilliance that we tend to forget the places, people and incidents from LOTR aren't real. 

Now if you want "crazy"....well, I'd love to learn to speak Elvish.  And if I lived near the Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison, I could.  It's taught there.  I have the instructor's text book, but I want to hear it, not just read it.


Edit:  P.S. Thanks, Rach, for the explanation about Hobbits, cousins, nephews and uncles.  Sounds good to me. 
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Re:The "LotR book reading club" discussion thread
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2005, 07:25:03 am »
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Yeux,
There are several online Elvish tutorials. I can PM you the sites if you'd like. Let me know.

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Rach
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