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  Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
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   Author  Topic: Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice  (Read 2497 times)
Galadriel (O.L.C.)
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 09:48:42 am »

I am sorry that you left A+F Rae, I really liked your posts and pics always, I will miss it.
I can understand what you feel but sometimes we have to let go.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 09:49:23 am by Galadriel OLC » Report to moderator   Logged




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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 07:08:18 pm »

No I'm not really back. I will be deleting my account again.

I want to make clear that I have no problem with people expressing their own opinions as long as they do not attack other members.

I AM protesting the bullying, harrassment,abuse and personal attacks on myself and other members  that has continually been tolerated in blatant disregard for the rules that are plainly stated right here on the forum.

All I want to see are the rules as they are stated on this forum enforced.

That's it.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 10:18:34 pm »

What YOU ALL fail to see is that by acting like this, you are all in a way disrespecting Elijah.  If you think he doesnt come to this site your wrong and what does he see when he gets here--this bulls**t!  Arguing like a group of toddlers about rules and points of view.   Why make rules if certain people are able to get away with things and others not. and... Personally, I think it is quite amusing that some of you actually spend all that time on certain subjects.  I would laugh my butt off if I was Elijah.  This has become the Jerry Springer show at times(complete with full on chair throwing).   RESPECT guys! -- Each other and Elijah.  After all, he is why we visit here!!!

Peace
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2006, 06:01:38 am »


Quote from: Raewood on July 29, 2006, 07:08:18 pm   

No I'm not really back. I will be deleting my account again.

I want to make clear that I have no problem with people expressing their own opinions as long as they do not attack other members.

I AM protesting the bullying, harrassment,abuse and personal attacks on myself and other members  that has continually been tolerated in blatant disregard for the rules that are plainly stated right here on the forum.

All I want to see are the rules as they are stated on this forum enforced.

That's it.

I agree with you on this.
I am really sorry that you don't see a way to continue with your membership. It is a pity and I will miss you.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2006, 10:16:17 am »

But what you fail to see is that the moderators here are just normal everyday people with lives apart from the forum who volunteer their time to help keep the forum in order, and to enjoy the rest of their spare time enjoying the discussion.  When it comes to threads that cause controversy we do not have the time to spend on here 24/7 to constantly keep an eye on the arguments, so if things get heated the best solution is to just lock the thread before people get too upset. 

If members would just read and keep to the rules we have here then every ones lives would be much easier.  We do not have the time to keep an eye on every single thread/post to make sure members are actually obeying these rules.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 10:18:21 am by ElleJay » Report to moderator   Logged
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2006, 04:45:04 pm »

Again, I apologise as it was my over-reaction to a few comments that fuelled the debate.

I did not feel that my comments were particularly inflammatory or, in fact, that the responses from others to my comments were that bad. However, whilst I was surprised that it all got shut down so quickly, I suspect that the moderators are keen to nip situations in the bud before they go too far.

Unfortunately, as I do not come here very often, I was quite unaware of the history of these debates so perhaps I am just another in a long of line of people who have stepped in where I should have stayed out.

I would like to emphasise though that I am neither a lover or a hater of the individual in question. In fact, I have never actually committed myself to either side in the Pam debate. My only specific comment ever has been that  I will give her, or anyone, the benefit of the doubt and I will 'assume' that she is a decent human being until I see evidence to the contrary.

I have only ever asked for balanced judgement and comment on the matter and, whilst I encourage and respect the variety of opinion, I do find that the manner and tone of some of these 'personal opinions' can be offensive to myself and others.

As I am about to turn 40 next year, mother of 2 and about to begin my PHd, I hope I am not considered to be one of the immature posters (..!) I am always very careful of how I address myself to anyone whose remarks seem, to me, to be immature. I have no right to sit here in this forum and be an arrogant clever clogs just because I am a grown up. However I do expect people to behave as they would in a room full of strangers - polite and respectful.  Perhaps I am out of touch and missing the point that the Internet is exactly the sort of place where you can say outrageous things and get away with it because there is no accountability. Perhaps I am just old fashioned.

I am sorry if Raewood leaves. I would be sad if anyone felt that they could no longer come here, whether I agreed with their sentiments or not. I am sad also though that I will have to be cautious in future not to get involved in similar situations. It seems that, in trying to protect freedom of speech, some people are actually losing their right to it.., and, as usual, they are possibly the ones who have always tried to be balanced and respectful of others.
However, as I say, on this occasion and this topic, I can understand that the moderators are perhaps themselves a little overly cautious and undoubtedly very tired of the repetition of the same incidents.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2006, 05:27:52 pm »

Hey Jo

As I (possibly mis-) interpreted some parts of your post being a response to what I (and maybe also others of the A+F team) said, I wanted to give another (and what I hope to be a somewhat final) comment on my behalf.


Quote from: Jo on July 30, 2006, 04:45:04 pm   
I did not feel that my comments were particularly inflammatory (...) I would like to emphasise though that I am neither a lover or a hater of the individual in question. (...) I will 'assume' that she is a decent human being until I see evidence to the contrary.

I simply assume that you didn't mean to do so, but that second comment might (even if it may seem very unlikely to you at first) be taken as something very subtly saying something negative about Pam. Maybe it is the fact that I learned English as a second language (although I consider myself being skilled enough to grasp the meaning of your average conversational post), but on reading this "decent human being" part I found myself thinking that I wouldn't want to see something like that written about me. Just suppose I would write, "Well, Jo is probably a decent human being, at least until I find out otherwise." What would that make you feel like?

My point is, a perfectly "neutral" term might turn out to be most hurting for someone who asks for respect (which means sympathy and a general attitude of support). So, as long as members are not willing to approach one another in that attitude (i.e. feeling rather sympathy for another instead of neutral ignorance), I fear that fights won't stop from breaking out every here and there.


Quote:
(...) I suspect that the moderators are keen to nip situations in the bud before they go too far.

There certainly is some truth in that observation, taking into account the many incidents we have seen taking place at this board (leading to things as far as personal threats between members, even towards mods, as far as I remember correctly). In that regard, yes, we have learned our lesson and sometimes tend to take the bitter pill of depriving members from their right (!) of freedom of speech in our attempt to preventing members to go too far again. Not always, it seems, do we find the ideal way, which would allow all members to save their faces. But, honestly, that I think can't be blamed on us alone. Firstly and foremostly, I think it is every single member's responsibility to act in a way that a discussion can take place in an atmosphere where everybody can breathe without the fear of being jumped at after one disagreeing comment, and if some member fails to show that attitude, I think we not only have the right but the duty to keep such members from what seems like fulfilling their "private mission" to evangelize those who do not agree with the canon of their little "Elijah universe"...


Quote:
However I do expect people to behave as they would in a room full of strangers - polite and respectful.

And believe me, we have done and are doing our best to make this board a place of polite and respectful conversation.


Quote:
Perhaps I am out of touch and missing the point that the Internet is exactly the sort of place where you can say outrageous things and get away with it because there is no accountability. Perhaps I am just old fashioned.

I don't think so. The problem, as I perceive it, isn't based on a misjudgment of the internet as being a place without rules. I rather think that, just like in the real world, there are people who don't care about other people's feelings as much as they ask those others to care about their own feelings. This unbalanced equation sort of automatically leads to some kind of disaster. And, as unfortunately as I might even find it, I don't have the power to make people see that taking care of your next man's (or woman's) feeling will (almost always) pay off in the long term rather than trampling everything down so that your opponent will drop the subject out of fear.


Quote:
I am sad also though that I will have to be cautious in future not to get involved in similar situations.

Hmmm, I think there really is no more need to be cautious than in your daily life. Maybe trying to see what you have to say from the other side is a precaution worth considering, but I assume you're usually doing that already.


Quote:
However, as I say, on this occasion and this topic, I can understand that the moderators are perhaps themselves a little overly cautious and undoubtedly very tired of the repetition of the same incidents.

Especially the latter part of your reasoning can't be denied, I daresay.

Cheers,
/jochen
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2006, 06:30:49 pm »

Jochen,

Many thanks for such a comprehensive reply but I fear that, as you say,  it demonstartes one of the most tricky problems on the Internet - that of interpretation.

My attempt to describe my opinions of Pam are, as you demonstrate, open to a dozen or more interpretations. My term 'decent human being' carries no suggestion or implication of malice, negativity, suspicion or doubt. It is merely my attempt to describe someone who I know nothing about. I avoid using nice, lovely, caring as I could only base these assumptions on the fact that Elijah has chosen to go out with her and, whilst I would hope that these characteristics are true, I cannot confirm them.

What concerns me most about your reply is precisely the fact that you have interpreted the comments as possibly negative. In all the times I have commented on Pam, I have usually been 'perceived' as being firmly on the side of the Pam-lovers.

I am not a 'Pam-lover' as such but I am a Pam-supporter, in that I assume that Elijah has chosen her for a reason and so, I respect and support that decision. It is through my respect for Elijah based on the belief that he can make his own decisions that has put me on the side of the Pam-supporters. As a distant fan, I have never felt that I have the experience or knowledge to think that I know what is good for Elijah, better than he does.

I had thought that I was supportive of other posters, and respectful of those who see reason for fault in Pam. The only things I have not supported is schoolground bitchiness, unsupported allegations and those posters who comment as if they speak from experience and know what is best for Elijah and Pam.

Your comments are quite illuminating and I feel that I have a clarified interpretation of the position of moderators. For this reason, I am all the more keen not to get involved. I fear that, where I had believed that I had always spoke with reason that actually my comments are or can, be interpreted in ways that I had not expected or imagined.

Thank you very much for your insight but I do believe that I will remain an observer rather than a participant in future. To participate seems to involve walking a fine tightrope which I would prefer not to risk. I do hope that for all of you, especially the moderators, that there is no continuation of these events.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2006, 09:31:24 pm »

[Jochen wrote]

I think it is every single member's responsibility to act in a way that a discussion can take place in an atmosphere where everybody can breathe without the fear of being jumped at after one disagreeing comment.,

[I wrote]

^^^^Thats how I feel Jochen and from my point of view on whats happened is someone dared to disagree with certain members here about pam and the opinions on both sides about whether they left/arrived the airport.  Its funny as I have seen no disrespect here at all other than certain members not allowing another members to disagree with them.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2006, 07:32:50 pm »

I wish you the best, Raewood!! You'll be missed. Everyone has the right to post an opinion in a controversial topic(talking about Ms. Pam) but it is incorrect to insult another members. Guys, do you think Lij enters to a forum like this to read comments about this woman? I don't think so. Lij is a very busy guy.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 07:40:11 pm by MyFrodo » Report to moderator   Logged


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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2006, 08:06:09 pm »

i think locking threads that get outta hand is a good idea. some comments cause real offense to other members even if they are not meant that way, there are so many of us on here and every one has a different view and opinion and becasue of this things can get heated, no one is to blame its just the way things turn out. some are more sensitive than others and think that particular posts are aimed directly a them and thats not the case. its hard for the mods to control every thread/topic/discussion so its best to lock them up to stop people getting upset/frustrated/annoyed xxx
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2006, 08:13:27 pm »


Quote from: MyFrodo on August 01, 2006, 07:32:50 pm   

Guys, do you think Lij enters to a forum like this to read comments about this woman? I don't think so. Lij is a very busy guy.

Not as busy as you might think!   Keep that in mind   Another way to look at it--I wouldnt even want his friends or extended family to see some of the hurtful things written here. 

Peace
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2006, 02:36:12 pm »

^^Theres been nothing hurtful said here about elijah or pam just opinions stated.  Also im sure he would respect and understand someone elses opinion when they disagree with pam.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2006, 06:14:09 pm »


Quote from: emilys_star on August 02, 2006, 02:36:12 pm   

^^Theres been nothing hurtful said here about elijah or pam just opinions stated.  Also im sure he would respect and understand someone elses opinion when they disagree with pam.


I can't quote anything from that thread because it seems I can't find it (probably deleted), but I remember quite a few posts calling Pam "arrogant" and even "ugly". Those are very hurtful words. I just hope we can avoid that in the future.
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Re:Locking 'Pam' Threads- Another choice
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2006, 06:48:51 pm »


Quote from: emilys_star on August 02, 2006, 02:36:12 pm   

^^Theres been nothing hurtful said here about elijah or pam just opinions stated.  Also im sure he would respect and understand someone elses opinion when they disagree with pam.

there isnt in this thread honey, i didnt mean it like that i meant in the original one that was locked the arguments started becasue of the way people were interrpreting comments of others. xxx just wanted you to know what i meant xxx
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 06:49:29 pm by willow-jade » Report to moderator   Logged
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