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Title: Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: maryd on February 10, 2010, 07:46:28 am

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the use of fur and leather in fashion. Do you think there's a difference between the two - ie. would you wear leather but never fur? What about second-hand/vintage fur and leather? If you don't wear either, is it a simple matter of taste, or for ethical reasons?

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Misz_Mii on February 10, 2010, 10:19:43 am

Well actually, I've always worn leather for the simple fact that it's nicer looking and of better quality than fake-leather. I used to be very anti-fur, because most animals are treated horrible. I've heard of a ranch though, where bunnies are kept. They have a good life and when they die, they use their skin to process it in clothes.

So if it's fur of well-treated animals, I'd wear it, because real fur is nicer than fake.

I got a question though... We eat meat of a cow and we use their skins... but is we use the meat of a bunny, do we use their skins as well? Because that'd be better, right? That way you use everything of the animal and it'd be less cruel?

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elizabeth coffey on February 10, 2010, 11:37:16 am

I did have a leather jacket and a belt but now only got leather shoes. I would never wear fur, fake or real. I don't like the fact animals are killed for making fur jackets.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on February 10, 2010, 02:26:34 pm

Animals should not be killed for fashion! I don't eat meat and I don't wear leater or fur. i don't even like the look of leather and fur (in fashion, on the right animal it works ;) ). It's disgusting!

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elijah fan on February 10, 2010, 03:19:11 pm

I agree with Victoria :) Although I do eat meat. But I think it can look good on some people... but definitely not on me! That's disgusting. xD But I think animals should not be killed to make coats... I think that's just wrong. :( I just love animals, and I hate that they're even killed for meat, although I do eat it.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Misz_Mii on February 10, 2010, 03:51:26 pm

But look at it like this: We are killing animals for meat and we eat it and then it's okay (except for vegetarian people, like Victoria and people I know) so when they are killed, why not use their skins as well? They're dead anyways, so why not use EVERYTHING off of them? I mean, cow bones are used to make gelatin.

Quick question: do vegetarian people not eat gelatin either?

If you knew an animal had a good life and died because they were old, would you still not wear their leather or fur?

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elijah fan on February 10, 2010, 05:44:06 pm

Yeah, I think you're right, if you look at it like that. I guess (if I liked the way it looked, which I don't think it looks good on me) I might wear it since it is already dead anyways and there's nothing I could do about it. And yeah, it would be comforting to know that it had lived a long good life. I would probably wear it if it looked good on me. But that doesn't mean I think it's right to kill innocent animals for clothing. I would never kill any animal myself, no matter what.

That's an interesting fact about gelatin, I never knew that. I'm not sure if they do. xD

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on February 11, 2010, 04:58:46 am

[quote author=Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=0#msg1190146 date=1265835086]
But look at it like this: We are killing animals for meat and we eat it and then it's okay (except for vegetarian people, like Victoria and people I know) so when they are killed, why not use their skins as well? They're dead anyways, so why not use EVERYTHING off of them? I mean, cow bones are used to make gelatin.[/quote]

on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
If you knew an animal had a good life and died because they were old, would you still not wear their leather or fur?
Using that argument I could say that Ed Gein didn't do anything wrong. (For those who don't know who Ed Gein is, he used to steal already buried corpses and then remove their skin to make lamp shades and a woman suit [in a nutshell, don't want too much information for the young ones.]) Those people had fine lives and they were already dead so why couldn't he make things out of their skin and eat their bodies. It's an extreme example I know but I hope you see what I'm getting at (in a very extreme way, as I said).


on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
Quick question: do vegetarian people not eat gelatin either?
I can't speak for all vegetarians obviously but I think it's like fish. Some vegetarians eat it and some don't. I don't eat gelatin and I don't eat fish.


on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
If you knew an animal had a good life and died because they were old, would you still not wear their leather or fur?
I wouldn't no. Because we have no need to wear fur or leather these days. Tribes who are not as...what's the word...advanced as we are (i.e. they still live in huts in the middle of the jungle, you know what I mean??) need to kill the animals and use their fur as they don't have any other means of sustaining their tribe.

If any-one doesn't understand anything I've said please just ask and I'll (try) to clarify for you :)

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: maryd on February 11, 2010, 02:47:41 pm

I think it's really interesting to see the differences in peoples' views, so thanks for all the replies so far!

It's taken me a long time to sort out what I personally think about all this - I mean, I eat meat, so I suppose I should be prepared to wear fur and leather, but eating meat is more socially acceptable, I think. I personally don't own any fur or leather. I sort of agree with Pamela, though - if you're going to eat an animal, you might as well use all of it that you can (and I make an effort to only eat well-reared meat that has lived a good life). I'm not too sure how I feel though about your extreme example Victoria - I am conscious of drawing a line somewhere between human and animal, whether that's rightly or wrongly.

And as leather that's second hand, I probably would wear it if I had it, because it's already made and manufactured into a garment. But I'd never buy new fur or leather, because I think that might be increasing the demand for it in some way?

I've also read that animal welfare groups like PETA speak out against even fake fur, because it 'glorifies' the wearing of it. What do you all think about that?

And also, do you think it's right for people with certain views to 'attack' people for wearing fur/leather? Should it be a completely free choice? Is it wrong for pressure groups to insist that wearing fur/leather is 'wrong' when it's a free country?

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elijah fan on February 11, 2010, 04:18:00 pm

Well, I think that people should be able to choose for themselves whether or not they wear fur or leather, depending on what they think is right. I think each person should decide for themselves on this issue whether or not it's ok, if they've lived a long healthy life, or if it's wrong.

I think it's ok like to tell other people opinion, and show them why you think that and stuff, but not to pressure them onto it.

And I agree with you Mary, second hand leather I would probably wear if I already had it too (if I liked how it looked, which I dont. lol) since it was already made and there is nothing I could do about it.

But this is an interesting topic... and I'm not completely sure still. But I guess I don't have to worry about it too much since I don't like how it looks on me anyways. lol :)

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on February 12, 2010, 03:24:45 pm


on 1265917661, maryd wrote:
I'm not too sure how I feel though about your extreme example Victoria - I am conscious of drawing a line somewhere between human and animal, whether that's rightly or wrongly.
As I say, I don't want y'all to take that example seriously. But I was just using it as an example. Humans are animals too so! ::)

But hey, just playing Devil's Advocate ::)

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Misz_Mii on February 16, 2010, 06:59:13 am

[quote author=Damita Jackson P.Y.T. link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=0#msg1190163 date=1265882326]
Using that argument I could say that Ed Gein didn't do anything wrong. (For those who don't know who Ed Gein is, he used to steal already buried corpses and then remove their skin to make lamp shades and a woman suit [in a nutshell, don't want too much information for the young ones.]) Those people had fine lives and they were already dead so why couldn't he make things out of their skin and eat their bodies. It's an extreme example I know but I hope you see what I'm getting at (in a very extreme way, as I said).[/quote]

Well, like you said it's a bit extreme, yes, but it's actually kind of the same. But if you look at it like THIS: We kind of do 'recycle' our bodies. We donate our organs for other people to live. I know, I know, fur and leather aren't things we desperately need to live (for most normal people ;) ) but it's kind of the same.

[quote author=Damita Jackson P.Y.T. link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=0#msg1190163 date=1265882326]

on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
If you knew an animal had a good life and died because they were old, would you still not wear their leather or fur?
I wouldn't no. Because we have no need to wear fur or leather these days. Tribes who are not as...what's the word...advanced as we are (i.e. they still live in huts in the middle of the jungle, you know what I mean??) need to kill the animals and use their fur as they don't have any other means of sustaining their tribe.
[/quote]
Quote:


I know we don't need to wear leather or fur, (or suede, which is just leather turned inside out) and I know why do have like cotton and polyester and whatever more. But if you buy yourself a nice pair of boots... I usually buy leather, because it's much warmer than for example fake-leather. Also, fake-leather will be gone faster, because after some time it doesn't look so good anymore, as for leather, it stays good for way longer.

I'm not pro-animal killing for fashion, never have been, but I don't really see what's wrong with eating meat and use the skins. I'm not much of a meat eater, because I don't like the taste of it, but I'm not a vegetarian. It's kind of the animals purpose to die and get eaten (omg, I just put that very strange, but you know what I mean, right?!)

By the way: That Ed Gein guy is mental!! Lol.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elizabeth coffey on February 16, 2010, 11:01:06 am

[quote author=Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=0#msg1190350 date=1266321553]
[quote author=Damita Jackson P.Y.T. link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=0#msg1190163 date=1265882326]
Using that argument I could say that Ed Gein didn't do anything wrong. (For those who don't know who Ed Gein is, he used to steal already buried corpses and then remove their skin to make lamp shades and a woman suit [in a nutshell, don't want too much information for the young ones.]) Those people had fine lives and they were already dead so why couldn't he make things out of their skin and eat their bodies. It's an extreme example I know but I hope you see what I'm getting at (in a very extreme way, as I said).[/quote]

Well, like you said it's a bit extreme, yes, but it's actually kind of the same. But if you look at it like THIS: We kind of do 'recycle' our bodies. We donate our organs for other people to live. I know, I know, fur and leather aren't things we desperately need to live (for most normal people ;) ) but it's kind of the same.

[quote author=Damita Jackson P.Y.T. link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=0#msg1190163 date=1265882326]

on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
If you knew an animal had a good life and died because they were old, would you still not wear their leather or fur?
I wouldn't no. Because we have no need to wear fur or leather these days. Tribes who are not as...what's the word...advanced as we are (i.e. they still live in huts in the middle of the jungle, you know what I mean??) need to kill the animals and use their fur as they don't have any other means of sustaining their tribe.
[/quote]
Quote:


I know we don't need to wear leather or fur, (or suede, which is just leather turned inside out) and I know why do have like cotton and polyester and whatever more. But if you buy yourself a nice pair of boots... I usually buy leather, because it's much warmer than for example fake-leather. Also, fake-leather will be gone faster, because after some time it doesn't look so good anymore, as for leather, it stays good for way longer.

I'm not pro-animal killing for fashion, never have been, but I don't really see what's wrong with eating meat and use the skins. I'm not much of a meat eater, because I don't like the taste of it, but I'm not a vegetarian. It's kind of the animals purpose to die and get eaten (omg, I just put that very strange, but you know what I mean, right?!)

By the way: That Ed Gein guy is mental!! Lol.
[/quote]

I understand where you are coming from Pamela. I just would never wear fur period. Leather I wear if I buy shoes as leather is the best for shoes.

I will never donate my organs, don't agree with that myself. But that is an entirely different topic :P

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on February 16, 2010, 11:51:12 am


on 1266321553, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
Well, like you said it's a bit extreme, yes, but it's actually kind of the same. But if you look at it like THIS: We kind of do 'recycle' our bodies. We donate our organs for other people to live. I know, I know, fur and leather aren't things we desperately need to live (for most normal people ;) ) but it's kind of the same.
*phew!* I was worried you wouldn't see what i was trying to get at! I thought people would think I was condoning Gein's actions ;)


on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
But if you buy yourself a nice pair of boots... I usually buy leather, because it's much warmer than for example fake-leather. Also, fake-leather will be gone faster, because after some time it doesn't look so good anymore, as for leather, it stays good for way longer.
I don't wear fake leather. But you don't need to wear real leather do you? You're choosing to wear the dead animal.


on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
It's kind of the animals purpose to die and get eaten (omg, I just put that very strange, but you know what I mean, right?!)
That would be the view of a most meat-eaters. Most vegetarians would disagree with you there (such as me). But I do get what you're getting at.


on 1265835086, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
By the way: That Ed Gein guy is mental!! Lol.
You know his story? That's cool ;)


Oh I should say that I also don't agree with protesters who threaten to kill (or harm in any way) the people who do wear fur/leather. I think they should be ashamed of themselves but I wouldn't threaten to kill them because that would negate your argument.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: tiram90 on February 16, 2010, 04:28:41 pm

I wear fur some times, because it's so cold in Norway during winter. But that's the fur my mother and grandmother have worn, so I haven't bought new ones.

I don't have just one, strong opinion on this subject. I think fur is nescessary in some parts of the world, where they use the whole animal. And I think it's totally ok to make leather of the animals we use the meat of. Some cow races are raised just to produce meat, why not use the leather too? (I think we get leather from that kinds of animals, but I might be wrong)

But raising mink and other animals just for their fur, that beats me as wrong. Especially because they live under horrible conditions.

I must agree a bit on the "We all have a purpouse in life" think somebody above me said. Because I kind of agree. But I don't think that some animals should be raised just for their fur.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on February 17, 2010, 10:32:22 am

Marit, I have to say I don't agree with your fur ::) :-*

Pam, do you have any links to these farms you speak of where they only use the ur after the animal dies naturally??? i have a few issues with it.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elizabeth coffey on February 17, 2010, 01:59:45 pm

I understand Marit that people in v cold places need to wear fur as a necessity and I am fine with this. I am also fine with anyone wearing fur as it is ultimately their choice. I just don't want to that is all.

And I also agree with you Marit with animals being raised just for fur is wrong.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Misz_Mii on February 18, 2010, 09:15:52 am

I don't have a link to these farms, Vic, but my cousin once had a coat and there was a label in it that the animals used for the fur had had a good life and there was some sort of sign. I forgot the name of it, but will I ever think of it again, I'll look it up.

"Wearing a dead animal" wow, it kinda sounds harsh, haha. I don't really see my leather boots as animals anymore. Hmm do I need to wear leather.... Hmm I guess I'm gonna have to say no to that, but what kinda fabric do you wear then, Vic? What fabrics are your boots? Because I can't really think of anything other than leather for warm, dry boots.

What do you think is the purpose of an animal? Animals breed way too fast to not get eaten. I mean... if nobody would eat an animal, planet would get full in no time!

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on February 18, 2010, 12:16:47 pm

[quote author=Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} link=board=5;threadid=33941;start=15#msg1190453 date=1266502552]
I don't have a link to these farms, Vic, but my cousin once had a coat and there was a label in it that the animals used for the fur had had a good life and there was some sort of sign. I forgot the name of it, but will I ever think of it again, I'll look it up. [/quote]Cool thanks Pam. I just can't see how they would get anything out of a project like that, the more animals die, the more money they make, the more money they make the longer they can stay in business.


on 1266502552, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
"Wearing a dead animal" wow, it kinda sounds harsh, haha.
Harsh? Yep, totally. Reality? Yep. ;D


on 1266502552, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
I don't really see my leather boots as animals anymore.
But they were.


on 1266502552, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
but what kinda fabric do you wear then, Vic? What fabrics are your boots?
I don't wear boots. I wear sneakers. But I will say this: I have had fake leather when I was much, much younger. And although it probably doesn't seem it, people wearing fur aggravates me more than people wearing leather. Maybe because fur is more obvious, so in your face. In fact I probably have something made of leather without realizing it. Like with gelatin and fish, it depends on the person.


on 1266502552, Young&Desperate 4Attention{DA} wrote:
What do you think is the purpose of an animal? Animals breed way too fast to not get eaten. I mean... if nobody would eat an animal, planet would get full in no time!
When humans first inhabited the Earth, yes the animals purpose was to eaten and worn but these days we have alternatives and so the animals role has changed, to what I can't say. Just like I can't say what man's purpose is (whatever the Hell it is I'm sure we're screwing it up ;) ) All I know is what I feel in my heart, and that can't always be explained.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on April 08, 2010, 07:34:36 am

Some of you may be interested in this: [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wazBPyAO4tQ&feature=player_embedded]Lea Michele PETA interview[/URL]

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elizabeth coffey on April 08, 2010, 01:15:33 pm

thanks for the link Vicky, was interesting to watch her views. River Phoenix was a member of PETA also you know :)

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: Elijahs Impact on April 08, 2010, 03:19:33 pm


on 1270746933, miss sixty wrote:
thanks for the link Vicky, was interesting to watch her views. River Phoenix was a member of PETA also you know :)
I'm not posting for you to see her interview, more the clips of how they get the fur.

Title: Re:Fur and Leather in Fashion
Post by: elizabeth coffey on April 09, 2010, 04:07:41 am

Yeah, it was unbelievable the way they treated those poor animals, there is just no need for it for something as meaningless as FUR. Fur should be banned..but that will never happen :(


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