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Title: New pope
Post by: Seven on April 19, 2005, 01:07:56 pm

Turn on the TV. A new pope just got elected -- man, that was fast. Although they took an hour to get him dressed and shove him out the door.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 01:10:51 pm

I am soo excited! ;D He is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger , but now as pope, he shall be known as Pope Benedict XVI. This is a great day for us Catholics! :) For me, it brings tears to my eyes. :)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Seven on April 19, 2005, 01:13:22 pm

:) Yeah, it was a big thrill for my mom. I confess i don't know much about the various cardinals.

How old is he?

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Cristiel on April 19, 2005, 01:14:20 pm

It indeed went a lot faster than expected. But I have to admit that I'm terribly disappointed with the election of Joseph Ratzinger. I had hoped for a more progressive figure, someone who lives in the year 2005.

Seven, he's 78 years old.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Seven on April 19, 2005, 01:19:01 pm

Wow, he's only a little younger than the previous one. From the sound of it, it he might not want to be pope permanently (since he kept trying to retire, and he is so old).

Interesting trivia: The last German pope was in 1061, from what I can tell.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 19, 2005, 01:20:45 pm

I am sooo sorry guys :-[ He's from Bavaria, Germany, the most conservative part of this country - and he's 78!!
Oh well, let's hope for the best.
(I think I heard churchbells ringing here shortly after it was announced)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Seven on April 19, 2005, 01:24:27 pm

I'm sure there are worse ages and worse homeregions...

Certainly I haven't heard anything about Ratzinger to indicate that he won't do a good job, except basic disagreement with his stances. And that is less about the way he does his duties than a basic difference in opinion...

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Raiwen on April 19, 2005, 01:30:37 pm

I'm disappointed with his election too, I was hoping for someone less conservative. Ratzinger will also be less of a 'traveller' than John Paul apparently, which was something that made John Paul so great. He is very like John Paul in his thinking, so no change there. I was hoping for someone younger, but then a short papacy would usually follow a long papacy.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 19, 2005, 01:31:17 pm

[quote author=Seven link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861853 date=1113931467]
I'm sure there are worse ages and worse homeregions...

Certainly I haven't heard anything about Ratzinger to indicate that he won't do a good job, except basic disagreement with his stances. And that is less about the way he does his duties than a basic difference in opinion...
[/quote]Yeah, I guess you're right. But if he messes up something or wants drastic changes I'll feel guilty and judged.
What I don't understand however is why age doesn't matter?

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 01:32:49 pm

I hate that people doubt our new pope already. Such a shame. I believe the cardinals voted for the best candidate.
78? Hm, I will have to double check that. He appears younger than that.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: jennilisanne on April 19, 2005, 01:33:56 pm

That's really great :D (I don't have a tv, so I wouldn't've known!!)

What I don't understand is..., I saw a list of the guys 'nominated' and they were all over 60/70, why so old? Surely it'd be better to have someone younger...?!!

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Raiwen on April 19, 2005, 01:36:09 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861860 date=1113931969]
I hate that people doubt our new pope already. Such a shame. I believe the cardinals voted for the best candidate.

[/quote]

That's unfair. It's not about doubting him, he will do a great job according to his own beliefs as he is a very religious and intelligent man. Some people would just have liked to see a change of direction for the church.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Seven on April 19, 2005, 01:37:36 pm

I would like to agree with Megs that it doesn't seem fair to prejudge Ratzinger, on his first few hours. Hey, the Cardinals decided -- it's their job, actually, and I presume that they know what is necessary.

Ironically enough, my parents say that people doubted John Paul II twenty-six years ago, because he was too young, too modern, too athletic, too people-friendly, and so on. IE, too cool, and too rooted in the twentieth century.

My dad thinks that Ratzinger won't be pope for long, and that he's sort of holding the fort for a long-running pope after him. An interesting thought, but I wonder, if that is so, why the cardinals wouldn't have figured things out in the many years when John Paul II was sick.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 01:40:57 pm

[quote author=Seven link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861863 date=1113932256]
I would like to agree with Megs that it doesn't seem fair to prejudge Ratzinger, on his first few hours. Hey, the Cardinals decided -- it's their job, actually, and I presume that they know what is necessary.

Ironically enough, my parents say that people doubted John Paul II twenty-six years ago, because he was too young, too modern, too athletic, too people-friendly, and so on. IE, too cool, and too rooted in the twentieth century.

My dad thinks that Ratzinger won't be pope for long, and that he's sort of holding the fort for a long-running pope after him. An interesting thought, but I wonder, if that is so, why the cardinals wouldn't have figured things out in the many years when John Paul II was sick.
[/quote]

Thank you for backing me up there. :)
I see what your dad is getting at, but I am not too sure I agree. But that is a different way of looking at the situation.
I have the greatest faith that God wanted this man to be our new pope, and that he is the best choice. :)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 19, 2005, 01:47:46 pm

I think there was no surprise in who the new Pope was. Ratzinger was close to JP II and was elected the Dean of the college of Cardinals by him. The way I see it, they needed someone to carry on work of JP II, to follow in his footsteps, I believe. He is as much a conservative as John Paul was, and for sure, there won't be much change in any of the Church's doctrines in a hurry.

Despite all that, I think this new Pope will do a good job. He seems well loved by the people already. For me, I'm quite touched by this historic moment, I've never seen something like this before obviously, and it was quite momentous for me.

And Seven, I wished you hadn't made your first post sound like such a joke. I just have to say, I'm a little offended. This was an important and touching moment in the Church's history and I thought it deserved respect.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 01:53:07 pm

[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861869 date=1113932866]
I think there was no surprise in who the new Pope was. Ratzinger was close to JP II and was elected the Dean of the college of Cardinals by him. The way I see it, they needed someone to carry on work of JP II, to follow in his footsteps, I believe. He is as much a conservative as John Paul was, and for sure, there won't be much change in any of the Church's doctrines in a hurry.

Despite all that, I think this new Pope will do a good job. He seems well loved by the people already. For me, I'm quite touched by this historic moment, I've never seen something like this before obviously, and it was quite momentous for me.

And Seven, I wished you hadn't made your first post sound like such a joke. I just have to say, I'm a little offended. This was an important and touching moment in the Church's history and I thought it deserved respect.
[/quote]

*Nods* This is in fact a wonderful historic moment that touches the many (including me). I'm glad you feel this way. It is a big deal and people should respect that. I know most will come to it.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Raiwen on April 19, 2005, 01:55:36 pm

[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861869 date=1113932866]
I think there was no surprise in who the new Pope was. Ratzinger was close to JP II and was elected the Dean of the college of Cardinals by him. The way I see it, they needed someone to carry on work of JP II, to follow in his footsteps, I believe. He is as much a conservative as John Paul was, and for sure, there won't be much change in any of the Church's doctrines in a hurry.

[/quote]

Yes, after such a long Papacy I doubt many of the Cardinals would have wanted any sudden drastic change in the church, especially since John Paul was so popular.

By the way, the election wasn't really that fast. It was much longer for John Paul because the Cardinals couldn't decide between two people and had to compromise when they realised neither was going to get the 2/3 majority. My teacher said today that if someone is quite a popular choice it doesn't take very long.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 19, 2005, 02:00:52 pm

Sorry for the doubts, but I simply would've liked to see a pope from a poorer part of the world. Somehow I think that would result in more change in the world. :-\

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Cristiel on April 19, 2005, 02:01:28 pm

I don't doubt he will do a good job, I just don't agree with his views like I didn't agree with the previous pope either. I had really hoped to see someone more progressive, someone who wouldn't see women as the "weak race", someone who's not against gay people and who certainly doesn't see using anticonception as a sin.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 19, 2005, 02:09:32 pm

[quote author=Cristiel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861876 date=1113933688]
I don't doubt he will do a good job, I just don't agree with his views like I didn't agree with the previous pope either. I had really hoped to see someone more progressive, someone who wouldn't see women as the "weak race", someone who's not against gay people and who certainly doesn't see using anticonception as a sin.[/quote]I agree but the Catholic Church isn't ready for this. But this is why I would've liked to see the African guy become pope. Someone who wants to take your condoms away is not very progressive in fighting Aids in those regions.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 19, 2005, 02:13:40 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean, Cristiel. I don't agree with some of JP II stands too. But, for me personally, that's the Catholic Church's firm stand. And further more I'm born one, so it's really difficult. I find I struggle with it and also with what it means in that respect. Its complicated in other words! :-\

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:18:37 pm

[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861888 date=1113934420]
Yeah, I know what you mean, Cristiel. I don't agree with some of JP II stands too. But, for me personally, that's the Catholic Church's firm stand. And further more I'm born one, so it's really difficult. I find I struggle with it and also with what it means in that respect. Its complicated in other words! :-\
[/quote]

Oh, good a fellow Catholic. I understand what you're saying. It can be hard.
Cristiel, not to sound rude, but clearly you must not understand the role of the pope if you are looking for someone who is for gays and things of that nature. The Catholic Church stands firmly against those things. If there was such a cardinal who believed for those things, well, that would definitely be odd. Rather impossible in the Catholic church. Believe me, I am Catholic.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: mayadeprei on April 19, 2005, 02:21:26 pm

[quote author=Cristiel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861847 date=1113930860]
It indeed went a lot faster than expected. But I have to admit that I'm terribly disappointed with the election of Joseph Ratzinger. I had hoped for a more progressive figure, someone who lives in the year 2005.

Seven, he's 78 years old.
[/quote]

Once again, I totally agree with you Critiel :), we are going backwards instead of into the future with church :-\

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:23:32 pm

[quote author=Artanis Elensar link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861895 date=1113934886]
[quote author=Cristiel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861847 date=1113930860]
It indeed went a lot faster than expected. But I have to admit that I'm terribly disappointed with the election of Joseph Ratzinger. I had hoped for a more progressive figure, someone who lives in the year 2005.

Seven, he's 78 years old.
[/quote]

Once again, I totally agree with you Critiel :), we are going backwards instead of into the future with church :-\
[/quote]

You must grasp the concept that the Catholic Church is not working for the future. It never has changed what it truly stands for. I think you would really respect that if you were apart of the church. ::)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: mayadeprei on April 19, 2005, 02:25:44 pm

I do consider myself as a part of the catholic church and I truly believe in some of their values, but I don't agree with some of the conservative and discriminating thoughts of some of the churchleaders.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:28:18 pm

[quote author=Artanis Elensar link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861901 date=1113935144]
I do consider myself as a part of the catholic church and I truly believe in some of their values, but I don't agree with some of the conservative and discriminating thoughts of some of the churchleaders.
[/quote]

Well okay, but the majority of the Church is conservative in most ideas. When the idea of looking at women as the 'lesser or weaker race,' you can't be talking about women not being aloud to become priests or something of that nature are you? That has been in the faith forever. In my opinion, NOTHING should change with this faith.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Cristiel on April 19, 2005, 02:32:25 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861893 date=1113934717]
[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861888 date=1113934420]
Yeah, I know what you mean, Cristiel. I don't agree with some of JP II stands too. But, for me personally, that's the Catholic Church's firm stand. And further more I'm born one, so it's really difficult. I find I struggle with it and also with what it means in that respect. Its complicated in other words! :-\
[/quote]

Oh, good a fellow Catholic. I understand what you're saying. It can be hard.
Cristiel, not to sound rude, but clearly you must not understand the role of the pope if you are looking for someone who is for gays and things of that nature. The Catholic Church stands firmly against those things. If there was such a cardinal who believed for those things, well, that would definitely be odd. Rather impossible in the Catholic church. Believe me, I am Catholic.
[/quote]

I'm not asking the Catholic Church to promote gay people, I just want them to accept them instead of seeing them like "sinners" or "bad people". Being gay is not an illness.

In Belgium, we do have a very progressive cardinal, Godfriend Danneels, who's pleading for a role of women in the church (which doesn't mean that they have to be allowed to become priests) and openly speaks about the acceptance of anticonception. Just because he knows that yearly, a lot of people die because their Church forbids them to use condoms. I do have a lot of respect for our cardinal because he knows what goes on in today's world and doesn't want to pretend that aids doesn't exist.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Raiwen on April 19, 2005, 02:34:18 pm

There was a woman pope at one point, they only discovered it when she became pregnant. Bit of a random point there.

Anyway, the church has changed it's doctrine and customs a few times in history. The main faith in Catholicism is believing in Jesus and his sacrifice, and the message of Catholicism is to respect and love all people. No one is suggesting this change. But there are outdated ideas in the Catholic doctrine that should change with the times and if they do it will not affect the central faith.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:36:23 pm

[quote author=Cristiel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861907 date=1113935545]
[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861893 date=1113934717]
[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861888 date=1113934420]
Yeah, I know what you mean, Cristiel. I don't agree with some of JP II stands too. But, for me personally, that's the Catholic Church's firm stand. And further more I'm born one, so it's really difficult. I find I struggle with it and also with what it means in that respect. Its complicated in other words! :-\
[/quote]

Oh, good a fellow Catholic. I understand what you're saying. It can be hard.
Cristiel, not to sound rude, but clearly you must not understand the role of the pope if you are looking for someone who is for gays and things of that nature. The Catholic Church stands firmly against those things. If there was such a cardinal who believed for those things, well, that would definitely be odd. Rather impossible in the Catholic church. Believe me, I am Catholic.
[/quote]

I'm not asking the Catholic Church to promote gay people, I just want them to accept them instead of seeing them like "sinners" or "bad people". Being gay is not an illness.

In Belgium, we do have a very progressive cardinal, Godfriend Danneels, who's pleading for a role of women in the church (which doesn't mean that they have to be allowed to become priests) and openly speaks about the acceptance of anticonception. Just because he knows that yearly, a lot of people die because their Church forbids them to use condoms. I do have a lot of respect for our cardinal because he knows what goes on in today's world and doesn't want to pretend that aids doesn't exist.
[/quote]

Well in this faith, being gay is considered a sin, therefore they are called sinners. But we are all sinners in different ways now aren't we? Women do have roles in the church. There are nuns, teachers, all kinds of things. I don't see what more they need to do. Okay, Catholics (most) are against the use of condoms, but it is for an entire different purpose than aids. It is looked at like abortion; A.K.A. the prevention of life.

Rai, I'm sorry, but any change to the Catholic Church equals change to the entire faith.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 19, 2005, 02:37:04 pm

You know, I think I understand both points of view and I see it both ways. Its not easy to accept most of what the Catholic Church teaches and stands firm on. Sometimes, even priests don't agree but, the way I see it, this my faith and I need to learn more about it before I could get to question it, which is why I struggle sometimes.


Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:39:45 pm

[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861912 date=1113935824]
You know, I think I understand both points of view and I see it both ways. Its not easy to accept most of what the Catholic Church teaches and stands firm on. Sometimes, even priests don't agree but, the way I see it, this my faith and I need to learn more about it before I could get to question it, which is why I struggle sometimes.


[/quote]

Yes, I can agree with that. I struggle too and I know that everyone disagrees with some things within a faith.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Cristiel on April 19, 2005, 02:40:26 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861911 date=1113935783]
[quote author=Cristiel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861907 date=1113935545]
[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861893 date=1113934717]
[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861888 date=1113934420]
Yeah, I know what you mean, Cristiel. I don't agree with some of JP II stands too. But, for me personally, that's the Catholic Church's firm stand. And further more I'm born one, so it's really difficult. I find I struggle with it and also with what it means in that respect. Its complicated in other words! :-\
[/quote]

Oh, good a fellow Catholic. I understand what you're saying. It can be hard.
Cristiel, not to sound rude, but clearly you must not understand the role of the pope if you are looking for someone who is for gays and things of that nature. The Catholic Church stands firmly against those things. If there was such a cardinal who believed for those things, well, that would definitely be odd. Rather impossible in the Catholic church. Believe me, I am Catholic.
[/quote]

I'm not asking the Catholic Church to promote gay people, I just want them to accept them instead of seeing them like "sinners" or "bad people". Being gay is not an illness.

In Belgium, we do have a very progressive cardinal, Godfriend Danneels, who's pleading for a role of women in the church (which doesn't mean that they have to be allowed to become priests) and openly speaks about the acceptance of anticonception. Just because he knows that yearly, a lot of people die because their Church forbids them to use condoms. I do have a lot of respect for our cardinal because he knows what goes on in today's world and doesn't want to pretend that aids doesn't exist.
[/quote]

Well in this faith, being gay is considered a sin, therefore they are called sinners. But we are all sinners in different ways now aren't we? Women do have roles in the church. There are nuns, teachers, all kinds of things. I don't see what more they need to do. Okay, Catholics (most) are against the use of condoms, but it is for an entire different purpose than aids. It is looked at like abortion; A.K.A. the prevention of life.

Rai, I'm sorry, but any change to the Catholic Church equals change to the entire faith.
[/quote]

So you agree with gay people being called sinners? And you would never use anticonception in your life?

I think you're pretty naive when you say most Catholics are against the use of condoms. It's the church who's against it, not the people. I'm 24, I know lots of people from my age and I know nobody who's against the use of condoms.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Miriel on April 19, 2005, 02:41:54 pm

I'm not a catholic, so I'm not too impressed....

Ratzinger: As was to be expected. I can't say I'm enthousiastic, he's the most conservative of them all, but I guess it will just mean that nothing will change for the next few years. After all, he has been one of the bigshots behind the scenes for a long time. I hoped to see a more progressive pope, but I don't expect too much from the Catholic church in that respect. Ratzinger seems a bit of an 'in between pope' looking at his high age and the 'young' age of some other cardinals high on the nomination list. But that's just my impression...

And hating that people doubt the pope allready? Come on, isn't that a bit strong? I thought there was nothing wrong with people voiced their opinion on the cardinals' choice. If you don't agree with his views, doesn't mean you think he can't do the job...

Fun fact: a non-italian pope again! Before JPII the last non-italian pope was Adriaans Florenszoon Boeyens from Utrecht, aka Pope Adrianus VI. And that was in 1522-1523.
hehehe, I had to throw in some history, cause I'm nasty like that... :P
(but the last german pope was allready mentioned)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:47:23 pm

[quote author=Míriel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=30#msg861917 date=1113936114]
I'm not a catholic, so I'm not too impressed....


And hating that people doubt the pope allready? Come on, isn't that a bit strong? I thought there was nothing wrong with people voiced their opinion on the cardinals' choice. If you don't agree with his views, doesn't mean you think he can't do the job...

[/quote]

No, not from my view it isn't too strong. It's just that this is a big deal and perhaps it should be taken more seriously. I call this respect. It's fine that others voice their beliefs and opinions, and I am surely going to voice my own, just as I have been doing.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: mayadeprei on April 19, 2005, 02:50:26 pm


Quote:
Anyway, the church has changed it's doctrine and customs a few times in history. The main faith in Catholicism is believing in Jesus and his sacrifice, and the message of Catholicism is to respect and love all people. No one is suggesting this change. But there are outdated ideas in the Catholic doctrine that should change with the times and if they do it will not affect the central faith.


thank you! :)

I know of course this discussion can go on and on for ages, because everybody has his own opinion, and nobody is going to change that. I just wanted to share mine but now i just go on with my life and with doing what i belief to be a good catholic :).


Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 19, 2005, 02:50:30 pm

No, I don't think the Church hates gay people. It's not that. Its the sin that is hated, not the people. I think maybe the whole stand has sometimes been misunderstood.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Miriel on April 19, 2005, 02:51:25 pm

So, What are you saying? Sorry, I just don't get your point exactly


Edit:directed at megs:
No, not from my view it isn't too strong. It's just that this is a big deal and perhaps it should be taken more seriously. I call this respect. It's fine that others voice their beliefs and opinions, and I am surely going to voice my own, just as I have been doing.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:48:26pm by Megs~The Band Geek »


Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Cristiel on April 19, 2005, 02:55:33 pm

[quote author=Solskie link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=30#msg861922 date=1113936630]
No, I don't think the Church hates gay people. It's not that. Its the sin that is hated, not the people. I think maybe the whole stand has sometimes been misunderstood.
[/quote]

But what is exactly the sin in being gay?

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 19, 2005, 02:56:03 pm

Hey Miriel! you used to post in the JLC, didn't you? correct me if I'm wrong! ;D LOL are you asking me that? or to megs? I'm confused.

PS. Cristiel..Well, it's like if you know that something is a sin and you do it anyway, then it's considered a sin. What sin is, are actions that are against the order of human nature, I believe. Here's a qoute I found from Catholic. com. I think it explains it better than I can. ;D

Every human being is called to receive a gift of divine sonship, to become a child of God by grace. However, to receive this gift, we must reject sin, including homosexual behavior—that is, acts intended to arouse or stimulate a sexual response regarding a person of the same sex. The Catholic Church teaches that such acts are always violations of divine and natural law.

Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 19, 2005, 02:57:51 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=15#msg861903 date=1113935298]
Well okay, but the majority of the Church is conservative in most ideas. When the idea of looking at women as the 'lesser or weaker race,' you can't be talking about women not being aloud to become priests or something of that nature are you? [/quote]Weren't there women priests in the catholic church at some point? ???

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 02:58:34 pm

[quote author=Míriel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=30#msg861925 date=1113936685]
So, What are you saying? Sorry, I just don't get your point exactly


Edit:directed at megs:
No, not from my view it isn't too strong. It's just that this is a big deal and perhaps it should be taken more seriously. I call this respect. It's fine that others voice their beliefs and opinions, and I am surely going to voice my own, just as I have been doing.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:48:26pm by Megs~The Band Geek »


[/quote]

Alright I am just saying that I want it to be seen to others that don't find it to be a big deal that it really is. As in it is important in our history. I didn't mean to sound rude throughout this discussion, it's only my strong beliefs. :)

Solskie: I definitely agree there. It's different than what many think.

Artanis: I see your beliefs in this too. I apologize to you if I seemed rude, again, it's my strong faith. I will go on just as you will with my beliefs as I always have. :)
Cristiel: The sin in being gay in the Catholic Faith is that it is not in God's original plan for us all. Adam & Eve will take you back to that.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Miriel on April 19, 2005, 03:00:03 pm

Ey solsk! Yep, JLC, guilty as charged. I'm leading an insanely busy life at the moment with an insanely instable internet connection (lame excuse my lack of posting) And I meant megs, not you. You people are posting way to fast for me... ;)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 03:07:23 pm

Well everybody I am out of here. That's quite enough debate for me. ;) To wrap things up, just let me say I am so very excited about our new pope. :)

Ta!

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Miriel on April 19, 2005, 03:10:21 pm

Ok, ehm let it be clear that I respect the catholic faith and understand it is a big deal to people. I'm, just not terribly impressed, wich shouldn't be mistakenly taken as disrespect.



Quote:
There was a woman pope at one point, they only discovered it when she became pregnant. Bit of a random point there.


Well, Rai, they're actually still debating if that is true. My professor told me recently that at the moment they think the story of pope Joan is probably not true, but they're not sure (by 'they' I mean historians)
Funny: It is said they discovered it not only as she was pregnant, but she gave birth travelling, so she had to sit in a chair with a hole in it. Insane story, I know...

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Raiwen on April 19, 2005, 03:23:00 pm

[quote author=Míriel link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=30#msg861950 date=1113937821]


Quote:
There was a woman pope at one point, they only discovered it when she became pregnant. Bit of a random point there.


Well, Rai, they're actually still debating if that is true. My professor told me recently that at the moment they think the story of pope Joan is probably not true, but they're not sure (by 'they' I mean historians)
Funny: It is said they discovered it not only as she was pregnant, but she gave birth travelling, so she had to sit in a chair with a hole in it. Insane story, I know...

[/quote]

Yep, I heard that. My history teacher says he'd prefer to believe it's true because he's a fan of the bizarre. :P lol.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: HobbitGirl91 on April 19, 2005, 04:25:22 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861845 date=1113930651]
I am soo excited! ;D He is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger , but now as pope, he shall be known as Pope Benedict XVI. This is a great day for us Catholics! :) For me, it brings tears to my eyes. :)
[/quote]

Me, too! Its such a happy time! I think hes going to make a great Pope.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: HobbitGirl91 on April 19, 2005, 04:29:08 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861860 date=1113931969]
I hate that people doubt our new pope already. Such a shame. I believe the cardinals voted for the best candidate.
78? Hm, I will have to double check that. He appears younger than that.
[/quote]

He just got elected today! Oh, and yes, he is 78. I know, he doesn't look it! He is the best candidate, I think. He was the right hand man of Pope John Paul 2 for 21 years. My mom said she feels in her heart that he will be wonderful. (Not that my mom is the all-knowing...just interesting...)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: HobbitGirl91 on April 19, 2005, 04:31:27 pm

[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861866 date=1113932457]
[quote author=Seven link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861863 date=1113932256]
I would like to agree with Megs that it doesn't seem fair to prejudge Ratzinger, on his first few hours. Hey, the Cardinals decided -- it's their job, actually, and I presume that they know what is necessary.

Ironically enough, my parents say that people doubted John Paul II twenty-six years ago, because he was too young, too modern, too athletic, too people-friendly, and so on. IE, too cool, and too rooted in the twentieth century.

My dad thinks that Ratzinger won't be pope for long, and that he's sort of holding the fort for a long-running pope after him. An interesting thought, but I wonder, if that is so, why the cardinals wouldn't have figured things out in the many years when John Paul II was sick.
[/quote]

Thank you for backing me up there. :)
I see what your dad is getting at, but I am not too sure I agree. But that is a different way of looking at the situation.
I have the greatest faith that God wanted this man to be our new pope, and that he is the best choice. :)
[/quote]

Me, too. God obviously wanted Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 19, 2005, 05:08:52 pm

I'm not sure if this is true, but in another forum they said that Nostradamus has foreseen this and that he will perform a miracle. We'll see *lol*

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frodo_Ubsessed on April 19, 2005, 05:17:15 pm

[quote author=HobbitGirl91 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg861989 date=1113942687]
[quote author=Megs~The Band Geek link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861866 date=1113932457]
[quote author=Seven link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861863 date=1113932256]
I would like to agree with Megs that it doesn't seem fair to prejudge Ratzinger, on his first few hours. Hey, the Cardinals decided -- it's their job, actually, and I presume that they know what is necessary.

Ironically enough, my parents say that people doubted John Paul II twenty-six years ago, because he was too young, too modern, too athletic, too people-friendly, and so on. IE, too cool, and too rooted in the twentieth century.

My dad thinks that Ratzinger won't be pope for long, and that he's sort of holding the fort for a long-running pope after him. An interesting thought, but I wonder, if that is so, why the cardinals wouldn't have figured things out in the many years when John Paul II was sick.
[/quote]

Thank you for backing me up there. :)
I see what your dad is getting at, but I am not too sure I agree. But that is a different way of looking at the situation.
I have the greatest faith that God wanted this man to be our new pope, and that he is the best choice. :)
[/quote]

Me, too. God obviously wanted Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.
[/quote]

*Big Hugs* ;D Glad you agree my dear.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: HobbitGirl91 on April 19, 2005, 05:45:27 pm

The Holy Catholic Church will never be destroyed, so God will most definitely guide our new Pope Benedict XVI. So, go ahead and judge him, but everyone who does will see what a great job he does in leading this Church.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: myFrodo on April 20, 2005, 04:59:45 pm

[color=Purple]I missed the new pope election!! My mom told me it was a very emotional moment, she shed tears of joy. My sister felt the same. Later I saw on TV. I was expecting that moment.

I hope this Pope follows the steps of our beloved John Paul II. Congratulations for Germany!! You'll proud of Benedict XVI like the Poles were for John Paul II.[/color]

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Caz on April 20, 2005, 05:13:29 pm

[quote author=Frankie81 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861851 date=1113931245]
I am sooo sorry guys :-[ He's from Bavaria, Germany, the most conservative part of this country - and he's 78!!
Oh well, let's hope for the best. [/quote]

Why are you sorry? ???

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 20, 2005, 05:40:48 pm

[quote author=CarinaLady link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg862526 date=1114031609]
[quote author=Frankie81 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861851 date=1113931245]
I am sooo sorry guys :-[ He's from Bavaria, Germany, the most conservative part of this country - and he's 78!!
Oh well, let's hope for the best. [/quote]Why are you sorry? ???[/quote]This must be a disappointment for those who wished for a less conservative pope with a more modern view of the world. :-\
I also don't like having people of my country in such positions, cause whatever they do, we'll get the blame. People have already labeled him as the "Nazi Pope". I am so sick of the fact that even today our kids have to justify themselves for things their (great-)grandparents did.
And now we have a german Pope ... *sighs*

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Seven on April 20, 2005, 08:37:37 pm

[quote author=Frankie81 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg862542 date=1114033248]
[quote author=CarinaLady link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg862526 date=1114031609]
[quote author=Frankie81 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861851 date=1113931245]
I am sooo sorry guys :-[ He's from Bavaria, Germany, the most conservative part of this country - and he's 78!!
Oh well, let's hope for the best. [/quote]Why are you sorry? ???[/quote]This must be a disappointment for those who wished for a less conservative pope with a more modern view of the world. :-\
I also don't like having people of my country in such positions, cause whatever they do, we'll get the blame. People have already labeled him as the "Nazi Pope". I am so sick of the fact that even today our kids have to justify themselves for things their (great-)grandparents did.
And now we have a german Pope ... *sighs*
[/quote]

As an African cardinal pointed out, it should not matter where the new Pope is from -- he's supposed to care for the whole world. (As for what they call him, there are dozens of nasty nicknames for Ratzinger -- some much more unflattering than that one)

As for conservatism, it's a relief.I wouldn't like to belong to a religion that changed its important teachings radically to satisfy the sociopolitical demands of the moment. I've encountered people who belonged to such faiths, and what little they ended up with was pretty sad.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: JordanRiver12881 on April 20, 2005, 10:09:26 pm

hello..i posted a few times in the other "pope" thread (from when JP II died) as i've stated numerous times before (just restating in case someone here doesn't know) I'm not Catholic, but I have a question...what is the purpose of the Pope, and is his role in the church Biblical or man-made? (and I mean no disrespect by the phrase 'man-made', just asking) Also, I've heard a few times that Catholics believe that us Protestants are going to Hell...is this true? i just wanted to clear this up thanks to anyone that answers ;)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: doxiegrl1 on April 20, 2005, 10:55:23 pm



Sorry, couldn't resist.

(please don't take too much offense)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: twoleafclover on April 21, 2005, 03:49:14 am

i take offense to that little picture comparison, and you post please dont take too much offense. what are we supposed to do, laugh at it? is that supposed to be funny or something? that ur comparing the leader of the catholic church to some disfigured goblin. that's a man whose given his life to God, and i think that in itself deserevs respect. yes i am catholic, but i have friends who aren't who repect him for who he is, and surely don't compare him to demon like creatures, i really just think that's completely uncalled for, and that you should in the future take others feelings into consideration before you post.

anyway, benedict, well joseph ratizinger, not sure how to spell his last name.

he was actually the passed popes closest confident, he was holding his hand when he passed. i personally feel he is a good choice. there have been rumors that john paul wanted him to be pope and thats why it didnt take long at all, that it was a given he would be pope after him. he was in world war II and eventually abandoned the military and turned to God. i think that's beautiful, how in the midst of the war, and the inessential slaughtering of the jews, how he was able to embrace God. most ppl have the opposite effect. i say good for him. he's a wonderful man who will stand behind the morals and traditions of the catholic church.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: NiX on April 21, 2005, 07:45:32 am

Have you seen the new way to elect the Pope?



;) ;) ;) ;) ;D

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 21, 2005, 01:15:39 pm

Aw. Come on girls, have a little more respect. I thought this was a serious, intelligent matter we're talking about. Geez, come on. :-\ I'm not even going to say anything about that picture comparison up there. That's just insulting.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Galadriel OLC on April 21, 2005, 01:21:38 pm

Ghey!! I don't think this is funny, be aware you could hurt other peoples feelings.

I am catholic and I am happy he won the election and if you know something about the catholic religion you must know that the cardinals pray to the holy ghost to join the election and the spirit help them to choose the right Pope. I can see it in his eyes that the spirit of God touched him.

Don't play games with such nasty pictures. :(

I can't believe a FC Mod. post such a pic. >:(

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 21, 2005, 01:28:09 pm

"Mit Kriegsliedern auf den Lippen" (With war songs on his lips)

"From Hitler Youth to Papa Ratzi": Britische Boulevardmedien würden den Deutschen gerne als Nazi entlarven. Dabei hat Ratzinger nie ein Geheimnis aus seiner Zeit in der Hitler-Jugend gemacht.

("From Hitler Youth to Papa Ratzi": British Boulevard newspapers would like to expose the German as a Nazi. But Ratzinger never made a big secret about his time in the Hitler youth...)

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/hobbitheinze/pope.bmp[/IMG]
I'm German
This is just uncalled for. My dad is the same age as the pope. Should he be called a Nazi?
I really question the boulevard press in England. They have no knowledge at all. What people work in those places? Obvious just thick and undereducated journalist's. Shame on them.
And the frightening thing is, there are people in Britain who will actually believe those storys.

more here (in German)
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt2m3/ausland/special/652/51601/index.html/ausland/artikel/789/51738/article.html

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Raiwen on April 21, 2005, 01:39:48 pm

Nobody takes The Sun seriously. It's made for people who get a little bored reading for more than five seconds and have to flip back to the naked pictures. Given the history of the church and the Nazi party someone was bound to make an issue out of it. They didn't have the intelligence to look into it properly I bet.

(Probably wrong to laugh, but thanks Ghey, that picture gave me a laugh after a bad day)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Caz on April 21, 2005, 04:45:40 pm

[quote author=Frankie81 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg862542 date=1114033248]
[quote author=CarinaLady link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg862526 date=1114031609]
[quote author=Frankie81 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=0#msg861851 date=1113931245]
I am sooo sorry guys :-[ He's from Bavaria, Germany, the most conservative part of this country - and he's 78!!
Oh well, let's hope for the best. [/quote]Why are you sorry? ???[/quote]This must be a disappointment for those who wished for a less conservative pope with a more modern view of the world. :-\
I also don't like having people of my country in such positions, cause whatever they do, we'll get the blame. People have already labeled him as the "Nazi Pope". I am so sick of the fact that even today our kids have to justify themselves for things their (great-)grandparents did.
And now we have a german Pope ... *sighs*
[/quote]

[color=Blue]I see now what you mean. I didn't realise you are from Germany as well. :)

I live in England but I'm german. I didn't know people called him names like that :'( when will they learn? When I came over here in the beginning, I was even called a Nazi but I told them the truth and it stopped but it was hard. :'( Even now sometimes people make jokes (at work) about me being German. Two boys used to do the Heil Hitler sign when they saw me. :'(

Etaeb, I think it's sad this was printed, even though not many people take it seriously, some do. :'([/color]

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Frankie81 on April 21, 2005, 05:01:18 pm


on 1114116340, CarinaLady wrote:
I live in England but I'm german. I didn't know people called him names like that :'( when will they learn? When I came over here in the beginning, I was even called a Nazi but I told them the truth and it stopped but it was hard. :'( Even now sometimes people make jokes (at work) about me being German. Two boys used to do the Heil Hitler sign when they saw me. :'(
Stuff like this makes me really angry. I can't say I'm glad that Ratzinger was chosen but calling him a Nazi is plain stupid. Yeah, he joined Hitler's Youth but people should realize that it was compulsory at that time and he did desert the army later on. It makes me sad that the english still insult us or joke about it in the manner you described. It's so bad that even our foreign minister addressed this issue once while he was in England. :-\

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: JordanRiver12881 on April 21, 2005, 06:13:11 pm

[quote author=JordanRiver12881 link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=45#msg862661 date=1114049366]
hello..i posted a few times in the other "pope" thread (from when JP II died) as i've stated numerous times before (just restating in case someone here doesn't know) I'm not Catholic, but I have a question...what is the purpose of the Pope, and is his role in the church Biblical or man-made? (and I mean no disrespect by the phrase 'man-made', just asking) Also, I've heard a few times that Catholics believe that us Protestants are going to Hell...is this true? i just wanted to clear this up thanks to anyone that answers ;)
[/quote]


I hate quoting myself, but HEY GUYS I ASKED A QUESTION!!!!!! don't mean to sound rude but I feel kinda slighted that you guys made a whole new page in this thread and completely ignored my post... >:( :-\ :'(

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 21, 2005, 10:02:11 pm

Hey girl,

I didn't realise you'd asked a question! poor dear. Here's a site that you can check on what you looking for and on what other questions you may have.

http://www.catholic.com/default.asp

And I'd like to add that, everyone should read more about their faiths or whatever it is that they believe. Even myself. Understanding is always good thing. I'm not saying that you don't Jordan, I'm just making a general statement. I hope you find what you're looking for on that site, if not PM me, I'll see if I can look for other sites for you. :)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Galadriel OLC on April 22, 2005, 01:32:32 am

[quote author=Rai link=board=5;threadid=26674;start=60#msg862919 date=1114105188]

(Probably wrong to laugh, but thanks Ghey, that picture gave me a laugh after a bad day)
[/quote]

Ok, girls I just looked at your ages and I think young people can laugh about pics like the one Ghey posted. Maybe you have to find some experience in life to take things more serious. I am sorry if this sound rude, I don't want to be like this but to look at such a pic didn't make me laugh at all. I think the pic is tasteless. :(


Title: Re:New pope
Post by: twoleafclover on April 22, 2005, 02:03:47 am

i think it's rude any way you look at it ::)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 23, 2005, 02:23:47 pm

I kind of like the look of the new pope. Not bad for 78.
Anybody else thinks he looks like Sir Anthony Hopkins in this pic.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/hobbitheinze/papa.bmp[/IMG]

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: JordanRiver12881 on April 23, 2005, 03:57:58 pm

Protestantism (16th Century)



Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, virtually all claim to believe in the teachings of sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone"—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology) and sola fide ("by faith alone"— the idea that we are justified by faith only).

The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies the infallible authority of the Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation." A significant feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church "against" the Bible, denying that the magisterium has any infallible authority to teach and interpret Scripture.

The doctrine of private judgment has resulted in an enormous number of different denominations. According to The Christian Sourcebook, there are approximately 20-30,000 denominations, with 270 new ones being formed each year. Virtually all of these are Protestant.


Well, now I'm a heretic according to the RCC. Makes me feel special and warm on the inside...but i wont get into a religious discussion...we'll save that for the religious thread... doesnt really help, cuz they seem to kind of dance around the answers I was looking for, but thanks for the link Solskie!

and yes, he does look like Sir Anthony Hopkins a lil bit ;)

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: The Used on April 23, 2005, 04:24:30 pm

[color=Green]I don't like anything he stands for.
(Ex. No abortion, anti-gay, etc.)
And, I'm also not Catholic, so hey. [/color]

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: SolskjaersGirl on April 24, 2005, 12:54:31 am

[quote]quote author=JordanRiver12881 Well, now I'm a heretic according to the RCC. Makes me feel special and warm on the inside...but i wont get into a religious discussion...we'll save that for the religious thread... doesnt really help, cuz they seem to kind of dance around the answers I was looking for, but thanks for the link Solskie!

and yes, he does look like Sir Anthony Hopkins a lil bit ;)[/quote]


Your welcome, Jordan. If you do have anything else you really want to know, you could PM me. I know that site has lots of historical fact than explanations, however if need you any clarification I will try to help you where I can. It'll not only help me understand my faith better, but hopefully attempt to iron out the misunderstandings. :)

Also if I may add..

What the Pope stands for is what the church founded by Christ stood for in his time. If Jesus were alive today and stood at that balcony at St Peter's Basicilia, the world would say the exact same things as they are now."You're conservative, the Church is going back to the dark ages."

It's hard to agree with what the Pope stands firm on, but, with regards to abortion especially, the Church teaches that it is the basic truth or absolute truth that it is wrong for any human to take a life an innocent, no matter how that soul was conceived.

As for gays, it isn't that the church denies them, I think that fact is misunderstood. It is the sin of acting on those desires that the Church denounces, just like how it is, with hetrosexual desires. It is neither asking gays to deny who they are, but to channel these passions to causes that would perhaps serve the world and those in need.

Though Pope Benedict XIV's election to the papacy hardly pleases half the world's Catholics, what we must all know is that through out time the many leaders and kings choosen are mostly the underdogs who had very little education, people who were losers, in other words. Take Simon Peter for example, he was a simple fisherman but yet he had played an important role in forming the Church and became one of the greatest saints. Even St Augustine and St Francis of Assisi.

I feel that we not only need to listen and watch, to just what the Pope is doing and saying BUT what the Spirit is saying through him, to today's world. Though, you are not a Catholic, Combat Baby, I sincerely believe that the beliefs you have are of truth and love.



Title: Re:New pope
Post by: twoleafclover on April 25, 2005, 12:22:27 am

^ amen to that sister ;)

as i said before i really like him, he stands for what he believes in. ppl are mad bc they wanted a pope who will allow priests to marry, gays and lesbians to have legal marriages, etc. all he's doing is following what the bible says and he's getting so much heat for it.

what's scary is how all the predictions in the bible are starting to come true now, how ppl will be persectuted against for following Jesus and what he stands for. it seems like everythings starting to get set into place for the end to come.

and as a side note, this pope was the passed popes closest confident, so, many of the programs he established in the church were both his and josephs doings. joseph and he shared the same ideals about the catholic church, so i really dont understand why ppl think he's so uptight and stuffy. the same ones that loved john paul hate him. i don't understand that.

Title: Re:New pope
Post by: Galadriel OLC on April 25, 2005, 01:31:22 am

I think the new pope should have the chance to show what kind of man he really is. We have seen vision of him but only God knows whats inside every human being.

Most of the cardinals voted for him. I wish the people don't say bad things about him before he even has started with his burden. I think to be a pope is a heavy burden. He might be a better man than everybody think. :D


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