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Title: Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 10, 2005, 11:25:36 pm

Okay, this article is admitably biased, but someone please tell me I'm misinterpreting this in some way:

"It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

What the hell is this? Are they serious? If you want to accuse popular artists of being anti-religion, in some cases that's perfectly true, but "Imagine?" I mean, come ON! Tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this is crazy.

Taken from this article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7


Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: twoleafclover on April 11, 2005, 02:02:32 am

well i don't know about porn and child sacrifice, but the song does have a secular anthem to it. i mean

"imagine there's no heaven...no hell below us...imagine all the people living for today....nothing to kill or die for and no religion too."

the lyrics are pretty clear, but i would not go as far as that article, i agree that's a bit ridiculous. though, if i am not mistaken, that song was banned from the radio for a while after it came out b/c of this very same controversy.

i personally just appreciate the song for what it is and don't read much into it, i think it's a beautiful song all around, and a classic in it's kind.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 11, 2005, 03:05:51 am

This is pretty scary stuff.
I always had the opinion you shouldn't combine religion with politics. Its not the right combination. There are to many different believes in the world.
Sounds to me these people are using religion so spread fundamentalist idea's around the country. Better watch out.
Next nobody will be aloud to do anything anymore. Have these people nothing else to do?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 11, 2005, 09:42:35 am

The thing is, fundamentalists - along with lots of other denominations, I think - see it as their calling to convert the whole world to Christianity. I think that's a terrible, terrible idea - variety is key, and there's just too much of it for that kind of thing to be possible anyway - but 'spreading the word' so to speak is part of their belief system. The scary thing is that now they're actually trying to do it on a large scale.

*starts searching expedia.com for tickets to the UK*

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: liladriel on April 11, 2005, 01:49:33 pm

Whoa, that it kinda scary!

Surely someone can't actually think that?!

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: uNblessed Citrus on April 11, 2005, 08:21:12 pm

...and I bet you he'll blame it all on homosexuals. Hardy har har. ::) What ever happened to freedom of speech?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 12, 2005, 12:12:54 am

That was an interesting point he raised though, about the right-wing being silenced just as much as the liberals. It's different now, because we have a very right wing president and legislation, but still - it's interesting to think about.

Everything gets blamed on gays.... It's silly. They don't even do anything, they're just.......y'know, gay. It's not like they're trying to turn the whole world gay either - which is what the perception seems to be a lot of the time, and it's ridiculous.


I still can't believe they're taking it out on John Lennon..... He was a little crazy towards the end there, sure, but come on. Let's not get carried away here.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 12, 2005, 06:09:42 pm


Quote:
Everything gets blamed on gays.... It's silly. They don't even do anything, they're just.......y'know, gay. It's not like they're trying to turn the whole world gay either - which is what the perception seems to be a lot of the time, and it's ridiculous.

LOL . . . I don't really know what you're talking about, but I feel like something is seriously wrong if all the world's problems are blamed on homosexuals. How stupid! It's just like blaming everything on George Bush . . . LOL . . . crazy people will say anything, you know.

Quote:
"It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

Hmm . . . maybe "Imagine" is actually written as a secular theme. I mean, it really could be. I don't see it, but, hey, who really knows except the person who wrote it? LOL. Also, I don't see how they would blame "it" on homosexuals. I'll be honest, though, I don't really see what's so terrible about that at all. I'm a Southern Baptist, and I mean, if this guy is someone who's a leader (per-say) or my religious beliefs, I'm sure he wasn't going off saying something that was totally stupid. Of course, some Christian people are crazy. LOL. There are crazy ones associating with all religions, eh? ;)

Quote:
I think - see it as their calling to convert the whole world to Christianity.

That's because we think the rest of the world is going to Hell. *Shrugs.* Like it or not, that's a big part of our religious beliefs. I mean, I know I'm being blunt, but Christians, including me, would be overjoyed if everyone asked God to save them. I don't just mean start going to Christian church services, either. I mean if everyone actually became Christians. We respect other religious beliefs and such, but we really think everyone else is wrong. I'm really not being mean, I swear, I'm just telling you how we believe.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 12, 2005, 06:31:20 pm

[color=Green]My, My, My!!!

I love Canada. *Kisses ground*

Just another reason why I'm not moving to America.

Yikes.

Buy me a plane ticket, please? :P

Kari, to your comment...Not everyone wants to be saved. I don't, I'd rather burn in hell (if it exists) than believe in something now. I'm not kidding. People that aren't religious, and don't want to be, don't want others telling them to convert. Personally, when the Jehova witnesses come to my house, I get angry. People that aren't religious don't want to be, and that's it. And it's up to them if they want to look into religion, themselves.

But other than that, I think John Lennon was pretty cool.[/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 12, 2005, 06:36:50 pm


Quote:
Kari, to your comment...Not everyone wants to be saved.

LOL . . . duh! I know that. I was just saying that Christians wanted everyone to want to be saved. Why? 'Cause they do!

Quote:
I don't, I'd rather burn in hell (if it exists) than believe in something now. I'm not kidding.

There's no way you can actually believe that. You'd rather live an eternity in complete and total misery . . . in a bottomless pit . . . without a chance of getting out . . . than going to Heaven? I mean, I've heard people say they think they can go to Heaven without getting saved and such, but I've never heard anyone say they'd rather live an eternity (FOREVER) in complete torture and misery than actually believe in something.

Quote:
Personally, when the Jehova witnesses come to my house, I get angry.

LOL . . . that's all of us. I realize that people get mad when they feel that religion is being pushed on them, especially in the U.S., and they probably should. I do when people (such as the Jehova's Witnesses) come to my house. Living in a place where there's freedom of religion, people should really be able to believe any way the want. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying we, as Christians, want everyone to be saved, because we straight-up think you're going to Hell if you aren't. It's a very simple concept, really.
[quote]I love Canada. *Kisses ground*

Just another reason why I'm not moving to America. [/quote]
LOL . . . well aren't we opposites? I wouldn't move to Canada (much less go there) if someone threatened to kill me if I didn't go. *Shrugs.* No offense to you, I just really don't like most of Canadian thought as a whole . . . or at least the Canadian thought that's been portrayed to me on A & F and on television.

Quote:
But other than that, I think John Lennon was pretty cool.

There's something we can agree on.

Hmm . . . are we totally off-topic, or what?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 12, 2005, 06:43:15 pm

[color=Green]Simple perhaps, but not something everyone wants.

I mean, I've met lots of people who live life completly different.
These things don't matter to them, (religion) so it doesn't concern them.


Either way, the dude in the artical needs a good flashback to the 60's. A beer, and a nice concert. Blamming everything on everyone else except yourself won't do anything.

And plus, John Lennon is dead, so he's really not that much of a threat. ::)[/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 12, 2005, 06:54:15 pm


Quote:
And plus, John Lennon is dead, so he's really not that much of a threat.

LOL . . . ain't that the truth?!?

Quote:
Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe God has called them to take over the U.S. government.

What's so wrong with biblical literalists?

Hmm . . . you know, though, I've been thinking a lot about this subject lately. I've drawn a conclusion about religion and politics. According to our Constitution, they really shouldn't intermix at all. I mean, I'll admit that I'm definitely on this guy's side when it comes to morals, but that doesn't mean we should try making people have our morals. It really isn't right politically. LOL. It's right morally, though. I think that's why government and religion will always clash a little, especially in America.

Anyways, like I said, these people are being portrayed as trying to cram God down peoples' throats, and that really isn't what they should be doing if they actually are. Nobody's going to accept Him at all if they go about doing things in that manner. I see what they're doing as a good thing, personally, and since Bush is a Christian, I guess he does, too. I mean, you can't really expect a person to put aside their beliefs because there are other people that don't have them, do you? I think that goes for everybody, including the President of the United States. If I was President, there's no way I'd start wars, and there's no way I'd condone abortion of any kind. I wouldn't put anybody to death under me, and I would never, ever allow drug usage or homosexual marriage. That's just what I believe, and I wouldn't set it aside just to make other people happy. I'm sure none of you would either, just because you don't think it's right to go against what you think is best.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 12, 2005, 07:01:31 pm

[color=Green]Homosexual marriage isn't hurting anyone.

And, I think not allowing something as simple as marriage to people shows alot about a leader. And it's NOTHING good, or to be proud of. Sometimes, in situations like this, you have to be excepting. And I find people in America have the most trouble excepting others when they are considerd "different". That's partly why the world has serious problems with your leader. He is not excepting, and to a country who is "leading" the world, you have to push yourself to become more excepting.

I would put my beliefs (If i was religious) in the closet if I was president. I am not the country, and the country is NOT me. [/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 12, 2005, 07:14:21 pm

Yay, the topic finally took off! (What's with the huge font all the sudden?)

I'll admit that Imagine has a secular theme, but taking it as far as child sacrifice and pornagraphy is absolutely outrageous.

I honestly feel that the Dominionists are doing what they think is right - I do believe that. I just think they're frikkin' nuts. I don't understand biblical literalists at all.... There are too many variables, and too many differences and contradictions in the Bible. (Mind you, I don't think that discredits it, I just don't think you should take everything word for word. Hell, you can't take Faulker or Hemmingway word for word either.)

WARNING: GRAMMAR NAZI EMERGING
It's accepting, accepting - not excepting.

(okay, I'm done)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 12, 2005, 07:16:36 pm


Quote:
Homosexual marriage isn't hurting anyone.

Dang . . . I didn't want to turn this into another debate. It is hurting people, though. It's hurting homosexuals physically and hurting everyone else morally. Like I said, though, that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it. Bush is entitled to his. You're entitled to yours.

Quote:
I would put my beliefs (If i was religious) in the closet if I was president. I am not the country, and the country is NOT me.

Since you aren't religious, you obviously couldn't say. I mean, if I wasn't religious I don't know what I'd do. I'd be a totally different person. Still, though, America voted for someone that had my opinions and knew what they were. Why would I ever "put them in the closet?" That's silly. You can't be expected to throw away your opinions, religious or not. Religious beliefs are usually a big part of who a person is if they are religious. I mean, if you didn't have them, you wouldn't be able to make any decision at all.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Frankie81 on April 12, 2005, 07:20:11 pm


on 1113343782][quote, Kari_Grace wrote:
I think - see it as their calling to convert the whole world to Christianity.

That's because we think the rest of the world is going to Hell. *Shrugs.* Like it or not, that's a big part of our religious beliefs. I mean, I know I'm being blunt, but Christians, including me, would be overjoyed if everyone asked God to save them. I don't just mean start going to Christian church services, either. I mean if everyone actually became Christians. We respect other religious beliefs and such, but we really think everyone else is wrong. I'm really not being mean, I swear, I'm just telling you how we believe.
[/quote]
Matthew 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.


So please Kari, just back off!!
As much as you praise Christianity here you will only turn people away from it further. Other people's "relationship" to God is none of your business! Your relationship to God is none of our business!

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 12, 2005, 07:32:06 pm

Whoa. *ahem* I wouldn't have put it quite that harshly... The repetition does fall on a deaf ear most of the time though, so keep that in mind, Kari. Most of us have heard it all before, ad nauseum.

But to address something else:

Quote:
Religious beliefs are usually a big part of who a person is if they are religious. I mean, if you didn't have them, you wouldn't be able to make any decision at all.

That's why I don't follow any particular faith. I don't like the idea of being dictated to and having all my decisions pulled out of a book. Even if most of the things in that book might be good ideas, I would have to rely on my own instincts first and foremost.


(WHY THE HUGE FONT, really!?!? It's so annoying!)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 12, 2005, 07:32:38 pm

OMG! How dare you act like I'm pushing Christianity on you! Back off my butt. I don't have a "holier than thou" attitude by any means whatsoever. I'm fully aware than I'm a sinner, and that I'm not perfect at all. Otherwise, I wouldn't have just cussed you out. (Not on here, outloud in my living room.) What you just quoted didn't support what you said at all. I was telling you why Christians, many Christians, tried to push people into Christianity. It's because we think you're wrong. I'm sure telling you I think you're wrong is not being pressuring at all.

Quote:
Other people's "relationship" to God is none of your business! Your relationship to God is none of our business!

I agree with that to an extent. Did you not read my other posts on this subject?!? Apparently not. I think you were just trying to pick out the worst part and bash me over the head with it. At least I tell people when I agree with them or thing they've made a profound statement.

Quote:
I mean, I'll admit that I'm definitely on this guy's side when it comes to morals, but that doesn't mean we should try making people have our morals.

Did you even attempt to read that?!? I believe that means I really think people should have the freedom to believe whatever they like, whether it's my opinion or not, and that people really shouldn't be forceful about it. The statement you quoted was telling you why people who were forceful about Christianity were.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 12, 2005, 07:44:52 pm


Quote:
I'm sure telling you I think you're wrong is not being pressuring at all.

Actually, it is, but I've gotten used to it.


PATIENCE, people! Man.... (Not meaning you, Kari.) That was un-called for. Could you not at least have addressed the subject of the thread? I'll admit that, Kari, you've gotten on my nerves a couple of times, but not here, not yet.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Frankie81 on April 12, 2005, 08:03:15 pm

[quote author=Kari_Grace link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=15#msg858140 date=1113348758]
OMG! How dare you act like I'm pushing Christianity on you! Back off my butt.[/quote]Then please do the same for us.


on 1113348758, Kari_Grace wrote:
I don't have a "holier than thou" attitude by any means whatsoever. I'm fully aware than I'm a sinner, and that I'm not perfect at all. Otherwise, I wouldn't have just cussed you out. (Not on here, outloud in my living room.)
Yeah, you admit you're a sinner, but you still try to tell everybody what's good for them. I'm sorry, but I'm getting so sick of this and I bet many other people do too.


on 1113348758, Kari_Grace wrote:
What you just quoted didn't support what you said at all. I was telling you why Christians, many Christians, tried to push people into Christianity. It's because we think you're wrong.
Well see, there's two different interpretations of a bible verse already. Now who's right? (don't bother to explain, really ::))
How would you feel if we had Muslims coming in here all the time trying to convert you? Telling you the whole time that you'll burn in hell for not following the Koran?

[quote author=Kari_Grace link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=15#msg858140 date=1113348758]

Quote:
Other people's "relationship" to God is none of your business! Your relationship to God is none of our business!

I agree with that to an extent. Did you not read my other posts on this subject?!? Apparently not.[/quote]
I did, but they're so contradicting, I don't think they make sense.


Edit: not sure if you meant me by addressing the subject, but I'll refrain from this thread anyway, so just continue your discussion. If you really need to discuss this further Kari, please send a PM.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 12, 2005, 08:59:21 pm

[color=Green]*Looks around...it's quiet....*

Either way, I think what that man said was way out of line, and people don't even interpret the song that way. [/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 12, 2005, 09:32:54 pm


Quote:
Actually, it is, but I've gotten used to it.

No it isn't! LOL . . . you guys tell me I'm wrong every 5 f***ing seconds. Does that make you pressuring? I think not.

Sorry if I'm mad, but it's very disheartening to hear everyone bash you and everything you stand for.

Quote:
Then please do the same for us.

I don't do anything to YOU! Of course, I will say something if provoked, but not until then. When you start calling me out for doing absolutely nothing wrong but telling you why people do things they do, I'm not going to be completely patient and kind toward you. Un-Christianlike? Yes. Sorry. I'm human.

Quote:
Either way, I think what that man said was way out of line, and people don't even interpret the song that way.

I think he was out of line, too, because of the way he said what he said. I mean, a song can mean whatever you want it to mean. I think "Mr. Brightside" is about a guy that just discovered he was a bisexual. *Shrugs.* That doesn't make it wrong, even if the guy who wrote it meant a different thing because it's only a song, and a song is a creative piece of work.

Quote:
How would you feel if we had Muslims coming in here all the time trying to convert you? Telling you the whole time that you'll burn in hell for not following the Koran?

I'd say, "Well, that's what you think, but I don't." I wouldn't freak out. I wouldn't whine and say, "Oh! Oh! You're pressuring me! You're pushing your religion on me!" That's retarted. People are just telling you what they think. They aren't being hostile. However, I'd say they would have the right to be hostile if I was telling them to back off and that they were totally stupid for believing the way they believed. After all, they would be telling me because they truly believed I'd be burning in Hell if I didn't believe the way they did. That's not hatred or pressure, you know, that's caring about a person. I don't *coughs* hate any of you, really, and I wouldn't want you to burn in Hell. If I did, heck, I'd just agree with you guys all the time. Anyways, I really think you should all start addressing all of my posts, and everyone should try to do that with everyone's posts. It's stupid to take one little excerpt out of a post and twist it to say what you want.

Quote:
[quote]I think - see it as their calling to convert the whole world to Christianity.

That's because we think the rest of the world is going to Hell. *Shrugs.* Like it or not, that's a big part of our religious beliefs. I mean, I know I'm being blunt, but Christians, including me, would be overjoyed if everyone asked God to save them. I don't just mean start going to Christian church services, either. I mean if everyone actually became Christians. We respect other religious beliefs and such, but we really think everyone else is wrong. I'm really not being mean, I swear, I'm just telling you how we believe.[/quote]
Obviously, I meant that people who were going around trying to shove their religious beliefs were doing it because of that. I never said I was going to do it. I was just telling you what I thought, and why I thought it.

Also, those of you who don't believe the Bible don't really make much of an argument trying to use it against those of us who know way more about it and it's contents . . . I'm just saying.

Quote:
Yeah, you admit you're a sinner, but you still try to tell everybody what's good for them. I'm sorry, but I'm getting so sick of this and I bet many other people do too.

No . . . I'm just telling you what I think is good for people. It isn't like I'm telling you that you must do something. I'm not commanding you or anyone else.
Other people's "relationship" to God is none of your business! Your relationship to God is none of our business!
[quote]I agree with that to an extent. Did you not read my other posts on this subject?!? Apparently not.
I did, but they're so contradicting, I don't think they make sense. [/quote]
No, they aren't! If you have any knowledge and literacy whatsoever, you can understand what my posts say. I've basically said that I believe government and religion shouldn't be hand in hand in terms of "politically correct." However, because of my religious beliefs, I'm bias to bills and laws that support my moral standards, obviously. Is that so hard to understand? I mean, maybe the President shouldn't be bias, but since he's human, you can't really expect him to make decisions that don't support his religious beliefs. The other posts were dealing with a subject that was a little different. They were about why people tried to convert people to Christianity and why some of them were forceful. Those things you quoted explained why they did it. I wasn't trying to tell people about how wrong they were. Puh-lease. I wouldn't have done that then . . . I was in a good mood at that point.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: I_LOVE_MY_BOYZ on April 12, 2005, 09:34:37 pm

Guys, come on... let's not try to step on eachother anymore. If you have something to say, please try to say it nicely, there's no reason to bring anyone down for their religious beliefs or lack other of. Bush is a Christian president... this is somewhat expected, at least by me.... so i can't say i'm really surprised.

anyway, yes... let's just all breathe... there's no reason to get so upset and "in your faceish." It's just a discussion... a discussion requires two different opinions, otherwise it's not a discussion. ;)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 12, 2005, 09:39:55 pm

[color=Green]The man is entilted to his opinions, of course.

But I would think that so few people would actually agree with him to begin with, so it's not really a big deal.

Don't worry, John Lennon still turned in his grave I would suspect. [/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 12, 2005, 10:05:13 pm

Thanks, The Used, for at least trying to put us back on topic. As for you two - Frankie and Kari - if you want to continue flaming at each other, can you please move it to the PM boxes? Thanks.


Quote:
Either way, I think what that man said was way out of line, and people don't even interpret the song that way.

Yes, I agree. "Imagine", the way I always saw it, is about the fact that religion is one of the things that divides people and pits them against each other. (Quite true, isn't it?) If there were no Heaven, and no Hell below us as the song says, then the ideal is that we would all work harder for peace on Earth because that's all we have.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 12, 2005, 10:45:48 pm

^^ THANK YOU! for explaining the song :)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 12, 2005, 10:53:37 pm

My pleasure! It's just one interpretation, but the point is it's not as dangerous as that guy seems to think it is.

*by the way, just ignore what I've been saying randomly about the huge font size. turns out I hit the wrong button on a keyboard and.....yeah. I'm a techno-tard.*

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: myFrodo on April 14, 2005, 06:20:51 pm

[color=Purple]There is not porn, and child sacrifice either in John Lennon's song Imagine. The song is beautiful is talk about unity.
That people who called themselves as Christians are really a bunch of fanatics. Fanatism is not part of Christianity.I'm a Christian(Catholic) and I believe those people are belong to a sect. Their actions are not normal, they are lunatics. Remember Waco, Texas?[/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 14, 2005, 06:39:19 pm

[color=Green]Yeah, what this man says is far from the songs meaning to even begin with. What he is desplaying is exactly what the song is against, in my opinion anyway. That's how I see the song...


What happend in Waco Texas? [/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: frodomyhero on April 14, 2005, 08:39:42 pm

[quote author=PHF1138 link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=0#msg857154 date=1113189936]
Okay, this article is admitably biased, but someone please tell me I'm misinterpreting this in some way:

"It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

What the hell is this? Are they serious? If you want to accuse popular artists of being anti-religion, in some cases that's perfectly true, but "Imagine?" I mean, come ON! Tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this is crazy.

Taken from this article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7


[/quote]

With this present administration and it's one sided beliefs... it's just the begining folks.. we got almost four more years of this .... where is our "smallest person " that can change the course of the world.... GandhI?
Dahli Lama? who???????....is there a Frodo about?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 14, 2005, 09:33:24 pm

It might be more than 4 more years, unfortunately.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 14, 2005, 11:22:44 pm

[quote author=frodomyhero link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=15#msg859247 date=1113525582]
[quote author=PHF1138 link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=0#msg857154 date=1113189936]
Okay, this article is admitably biased, but someone please tell me I'm misinterpreting this in some way:

"It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

What the hell is this? Are they serious? If you want to accuse popular artists of being anti-religion, in some cases that's perfectly true, but "Imagine?" I mean, come ON! Tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this is crazy.

Taken from this article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7


[/quote]

With this present administration and it's one sided beliefs... it's just the begining folks.. we got almost four more years of this .... where is our "smallest person " that can change the course of the world.... GandhI?
Dahli Lama? who???????....is there a Frodo about?
[/quote]
We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed, I guess. In the meantime, I'm in the process of filling out a temporary post-graduate British work Visa.

The Used: How do you figure that?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 15, 2005, 06:17:18 pm

Well, there could be another republican voted in the next election..and the government and media right on in America is being run by republican's...and from what I know, most republican's are the same... :-\


Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: I_LOVE_MY_BOYZ on April 15, 2005, 06:28:42 pm

[quote author=The Used link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=30#msg859670 date=1113603438]
Well, there could be another republican voted in the next election..and the government and media right on in America is being run by republican's...and from what I know, most republican's are the same... :-\


[/quote]

lol, the media isn't republican. Have you ever watched our media? it's totally anti-Bush in every way. And, you say "all republicans are the same" ... but, aren't all democrats "the same" as well? Just because a person is a republican doesn't make him a christian. Just because a person is a christian doesn't make him a republican. People are not all the same. they may have similar opinions, but they are not all the same. I may agree with you on somet things, but it doesn't mean that i am just like you. Just because you agree on one thing, doesn't mean you agree on all things. ;)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 15, 2005, 07:03:23 pm

I think we should get rid of this two-party system. It's too easy to label with Republican and Democrat as the only options. It's really a shame that the whole third party system never works - I wish anyone could get elected, or at least run and have a fair chance, regardless of party.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: funky_monkey on April 15, 2005, 08:07:32 pm

This is just another reason the whole world is going down. Everyone thinks there is only one God, and if you don't believe in him you're going to hell. what ever happened to America's freedom? SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! *Not yelling at anyone here, just at America and the Government* :P As for the comment on John Lennon, thats crap. he was just speaking his mind through song, just like all musicians.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: I_LOVE_MY_BOYZ on April 15, 2005, 09:10:15 pm

[quote author=PHF1138 link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=30#msg859687 date=1113606203]
I think we should get rid of this two-party system. It's too easy to label with Republican and Democrat as the only options. It's really a shame that the whole third party system never works - I wish anyone could get elected, or at least run and have a fair chance, regardless of party.
[/quote]

nah, i think if we had a one-party system, our entire system would self-destruct. --could you imagine ppl with such differing opinions in one party? I literally think murder would occur. And, i'm thinking... don't we sort of have a 3rd party system? the independent party... someone from there always runs, they just never get elected. :-\

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 15, 2005, 09:18:35 pm

No no, not one party - many different independent parties, like all 'third parties.' And yes, we do have a third party, sort of, but what chance do any of them ever have to get elected? Not much. I just think we need more real options besides just two. One would be even worse - I agree. That's not what I meant at all - sorry.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 15, 2005, 11:10:40 pm

[color=Green]You can't know the outcome of something if you don't try it.
Tons of people ran for president last year, and only two got media coverage.

Anti-Bush media in America?
That's odd, considering your the ones that voted for him.
Well, then again, it was only 51%...

When I said "All Republicans are the same" I was refering to the fact that, yes, they are all in the same party. And democrats are just the same. But when I watch the news, and see something new Bush is trying to do, I feel so raped and violated by it, because usualy it's about a) war b) oil c) destroying the environment or d) lies e) more lies. And I don't even live in America! [/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 16, 2005, 11:48:08 am

Oh! You changed your name - haha, silly me, I thought it was a new reply.

To answer your question, there were a great deal of us who did NOT vote for him, myself included. 51% isn't that much. It wasn't as close as the election in 2001, but it's still pretty close.

Question: When you say 'media' are you talking about what you see on the news, or tabloids/magazines/more entertainment-based coverage? Because those two types of 'media' have been covering very different things ever since Bush has been in office.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 16, 2005, 02:15:39 pm

You just have to look at Italy where the president owns all the TV and radio stations.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bush makes sure the TV and radio stations broadcast just good news about him and not his mistakes.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Frankie81 on April 16, 2005, 03:44:05 pm

I think it's true to say that most of the US media represented Bush in a rather "bad" light. On the other side, he hasn't done many things that give the media (independent whether it's a left- or right-leaning paper/channel or whatever) a reason to praise him. He's done enough to criticize him. Wars are always nasty, there's hardly any reason to speak fondly of Bush while Iraqi citizens are dying, US soldiers are dying, and reasons for the war are changing (or let's say, the main reason that was given for starting the war is replaced by reasons that would've never satisfied the American people prior to the war).

However, it was mainly Fox News-watchers (a right-wing tv news channel) who still believed that WMDs were found in Iraq long after it was admitted that there were no weapons. People who watched what you accuse to be liberal news channels were better informed about these issues.
I think it's wrong to accuse the media of being liberal when they're reporting truth, just because the right doesn't like it. While a lot of journalists might indeed be liberals it's unfair to say they're spreading "liberal opinions" about Bush. A journalist's job is to report the facts, and facts are neither liberal nor conservative.
I agree there might be some real liberal media where opinion is more important than truth, but this counts for the right as well. And as far as talk radio goes, Air America is the only liberal one and only came into being a year ago whereas Rush Limbaugh has been around for quite a while, I think.

I didn't know that about Italy and its media but you should research who really owns the US media. Bill Kristol for example is the editor of the Weekly Standard, that's why I don't trust that paper. He's also the founder of the PNAC (Project of the New American Century), an organization whose members also include Dick Cheney, Jeb Bush and several other Bush Administration members. They're describing what is planned for the next couple of decades in one of their reports (it was written in 2000 and already described what they just did in Iraq, interesting ....)

As for the song "Imagine", yeah, that's a real threat. I'm trying not to let stuff like that surprise me anymore, it's becoming the norm. Just like doctor's who don't prescribe the pill anymore cause they don't believe it's right in God's eyes. ::)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 16, 2005, 05:01:02 pm

Its true about Italy

On another hemisphere, another amazing phenomena is underway. Never before
has a man worth more than $11 billion, the 23rd richest person in the
world, sought to lead the 6th largest economy in the world and succeeded!
Media mogul Silvio Berlusconi is the newly elected right-wing President of
Italy who re-took power in May 2001. Berlusconi owns Italy`s three largest
commercial TV networks, he owns newpapers, magazines, film production
companies, video and film distribution businesses, the AC Milan soccer
club, and more. Berlusconi is transforming his group into the largest
European media and entertainment group modeled on US conglomerates like
Disney and Time Warner. He is a true media mogul who uses his own media
outlets as a platform for his political campaigning. And so far, he has
been able to skirt the numerous legal cases against him on corruption,
false accounting, bribery, tax fraud and anti-trust.

more here..
http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/print.php?story=02/06/22/4065278

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/international/italy/italy.html

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 16, 2005, 05:34:37 pm

*shudder* Yep, definitely scary stuff.

I hope they don't take the pill off the market... I'm a virgin (and probably will be until I'm like 30), but I take it for acne-prevention, and it would suck if I couldn't get it anymore. (It has something to do with keeping the hormones in balance - I dunno.)

I've been wondering what it would be like if the restrictions Bush and his admin are thinking of actually spread out to Hollywood, and popular music and the arts in general. I mean, it seems clear to me that there's no line drawn whatsoever on the violence front, but what about everything else? I know that they had to take out a scene from Spiderman a couple years ago, because it showed the Twin Towers, and I thought that was a little much even then. How much farther is it going to go?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Frankie81 on April 16, 2005, 06:03:35 pm


on 1113687277, PHF1138 wrote:
I hope they don't take the pill off the market... I'm a virgin (and probably will be until I'm like 30), but I take it for acne-prevention, and it would suck if I couldn't get it anymore. (It has something to do with keeping the hormones in balance - I dunno.)
I can't imagine they would take the pill completely off the market but you might have to find a liberal doctor *g*


on 1113687277, PHF1138 wrote:
I've been wondering what it would be like if the restrictions Bush and his admin are thinking of actually spread out to Hollywood, and popular music and the arts in general. I mean, it seems clear to me that there's no line drawn whatsoever on the violence front, but what about everything else?
Can you see that actually happening? There'd be so much outrage in your country, even among Conservatives.
But yeah, maybe they'll start putting all those liberal celebrities into the detention centers, kinda like in McCarthy times :P Uhm ... maybe I should go and take my pills now ;D (no, not the one you were talking about)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 16, 2005, 07:18:01 pm

You think so? Huh, well I hope you're right... And my doctor's not liberal, but she's a blood relative and knows what I'm taking them for, so I'm not too worried. ;)

Just out of curiousity, what country are you from?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Frankie81 on April 16, 2005, 08:56:10 pm

[quote author=PHF1138 link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=45#msg860215 date=1113693481]
Just out of curiousity, what country are you from?[/quote]It's in my profile ;) I live in Berlin, Germany.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 16, 2005, 09:40:14 pm

Oh, right. hehe, the profiles... I keep forgetting about those. (I didn't put much in mine.)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 17, 2005, 04:49:51 am

Maybe you should start to get worried. I have found this site including this:
Bush Administration Goes After Non-Profits That Oppose His "Abstinence Only" Policy
Salon.com reports that "some nonprofit organizations that don't agree with the Bush administration's 'abstinence only' philosophy" have been "repeatedly investigated by the government, while faith-based groups get a free pass." Advocates for Youth, a national nonprofit that provides teens with comprehensive sex education, had never in its 18 years as a federal grantee been subject to an audit by the government. Over the past year it has been subjected to three. ....more here
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/women/

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: uNblessed Citrus on April 17, 2005, 10:11:26 am

I think that, if things keep on going the way they are now, a republican won't be elected again. What we need is a Democrat with guts. Or Howard Dean.

I can't imagine (heh.) if Republicans take over our music, movies, and books. That's flippin crazy! I don't want a New America, I want it to stay the same!






Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 17, 2005, 10:45:48 am

[quote author=Etaeb OLC link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=45#msg860462 date=1113727791]
Maybe you should start to get worried. I have found this site including this:
Bush Administration Goes After Non-Profits That Oppose His "Abstinence Only" Policy
Salon.com reports that "some nonprofit organizations that don't agree with the Bush administration's 'abstinence only' philosophy" have been "repeatedly investigated by the government, while faith-based groups get a free pass." Advocates for Youth, a national nonprofit that provides teens with comprehensive sex education, had never in its 18 years as a federal grantee been subject to an audit by the government. Over the past year it has been subjected to three. ....more here
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/women/

[/quote]
*heavy sigh* Y'know, I've never been a fan of the 'abstinence only' plan myself. It's so unrealistic - it's not like any of the sex-ed courses offered in high school encourage teens to go out and get laid. Mine was pretty off-putting, actually - it's scary to look at all the stuff you have to do to keep from getting all sorts of nasty diseases. Abstinence is the only failsafe way, sure, but as soon as you tell a roomfull of teenagers to NOT do something, that's the best way to ensure that they'll go out and do just that.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 03:39:03 pm

Well, honestly, the only reason that Bush supports the abstinence only plan is because it is definitley very safe compared to everything else. Bush just wants to keep kids safe. That's his job.

Quote:
I can't imagine (heh.) if Republicans take over our music, movies, and books. That's flippin crazy! I don't want a New America, I want it to stay the same!

I don't think any Republican is going to take over your music, books, or movies. Trust me. If anybody was going to do that, Michael Moore and Bono would have been shot years ago. LOL. I mean, honestly, I don't think we have anything to worry about until we get a Democrat in office. They scare me.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: I_LOVE_MY_BOYZ on April 17, 2005, 03:57:34 pm

[quote author=Etaeb OLC link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=30#msg860091 date=1113675339]
You just have to look at Italy where the president owns all the TV and radio stations.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bush makes sure the TV and radio stations broadcast just good news about him and not his mistakes.
[/quote]

The media, aka news ppl and such, are completely and utterly against bush. so, obviously, that's not what he does. Not only is that not what he does, it's also unconstitutional... and if he DID do that, then Americans could not post on threads like this, because, obviously, its main purpose is to diss him.

And, if he did do that, i would be the first to petition for his impeachment. I shall not be blindly stripped of my rights.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 04:01:58 pm

[quote]The media, aka news ppl and such, are completely and utterly against bush. so, obviously, that's not what he does. Not only is that not what he does, it's also unconstitutional... and if he DID do that, then Americans could not post on threads like this, because, obviously, its main purpose is to diss him.

And, if he did do that, i would be the first to petition for his impeachment. I shall not be blindly stripped of my rights. [/quote]
*Claps.* Nicely said. LOL. Mine didn't come out that good, somehow. *Sigh.* Don't leave me again, Jess! I get so torn up on these threads by myself for a period of time. ;)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 17, 2005, 05:14:08 pm

[quote]The media, aka news ppl and such, are completely and utterly against bush. so, obviously, that's not what he does. Not only is that not what he does, it's also unconstitutional... and if he DID do that, then Americans could not post on threads like this, because, obviously, its main purpose is to diss him.

And, if he did do that, i would be the first to petition for his impeachment. I shall not be blindly stripped of my rights. [/quote]

But you can't say for sure he wouldn't do it.. Like in this case?

How to Get Straight to the People: Control the Message, Stage the Event
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0214-01.htm


Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 17, 2005, 05:21:37 pm


Quote:
Well, honestly, the only reason that Bush supports the abstinence only plan is because it is definitley very safe compared to everything else. Bush just wants to keep kids safe. That's his job.

I understand the reasoning behind it, I just think it's unrealistic and, frankly, dangerous. It would be great if teaching abstinence in schools would actually ensure that kids wouldn't go out and do stupid things - but it won't. It might dissuade a few of them, but the ones it doesn't will be in even greater trouble than if they'd been educated about how to keep themselves safe. (Which is his job, as you pointed out - to keep them safe.) It's a fine idea in theory, but in practice it just doesn't work.

Etaeb: Oh, ease up a little - she's saying she would be against him if that turned out to be true. Couldn't you soften the blow by saying "I agree with you" before saying "you're wrong" and piling up the evidence for it?

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 17, 2005, 05:38:24 pm


Quote:
Etaeb: Oh, ease up a little - she's saying she would be against him if that turned out to be true. Couldn't you soften the blow by saying "I agree with you" before saying "you're wrong" and piling up the evidence for it?

Please don't get me wrong here ::)
She was not wrong in my eyes. Good to hear she will be the first one to petition for his impeachment.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 17, 2005, 05:52:28 pm

[quote author=Kari_Grace link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=45#msg860699 date=1113766743]
Well, honestly, the only reason that Bush supports the abstinence only plan is because it is definitley very safe compared to everything else. Bush just wants to keep kids safe. That's his job.

Quote:
I can't imagine (heh.) if Republicans take over our music, movies, and books. That's flippin crazy! I don't want a New America, I want it to stay the same!

I don't think any Republican is going to take over your music, books, or movies. Trust me. If anybody was going to do that, Michael Moore and Bono would have been shot years ago. LOL. I mean, honestly, I don't think we have anything to worry about until we get a Democrat in office. They scare me.

[/quote][color=Green]He wants to keep kids safe, yet he has sent thousands off to a war?
Great president, he's killing a whole generation of KIDS.[/color]

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: PHF1138 on April 17, 2005, 06:48:31 pm

[quote author=obstacle 1 link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=45#msg860853 date=1113774748]
[quote author=Kari_Grace link=board=5;threadid=26549;start=45#msg860699 date=1113766743]
Well, honestly, the only reason that Bush supports the abstinence only plan is because it is definitley very safe compared to everything else. Bush just wants to keep kids safe. That's his job.

Quote:
I can't imagine (heh.) if Republicans take over our music, movies, and books. That's flippin crazy! I don't want a New America, I want it to stay the same!

I don't think any Republican is going to take over your music, books, or movies. Trust me. If anybody was going to do that, Michael Moore and Bono would have been shot years ago. LOL. I mean, honestly, I don't think we have anything to worry about until we get a Democrat in office. They scare me.

[/quote][color=Green]He wants to keep kids safe, yet he has sent thousands off to a war?
Great president, he's killing a whole generation of KIDS.[/color]
[/quote]
Um, not exactly. Only if you consider 'kids' to include some people ages 18 and over - that's how old you have to be around here to join the military. And as far as I know, they still haven't reinstated the draft, so it's not like they're being forced to go over there.
I'm strongly against the war anyhow - don't get me wrong. I think it's a barbaric and juvenile way to 'solve' problems, in any situation. (And of course, the above statement doesn't include any of the Iraqi people getting bombed on a regular basis.) Wars happen under good presidency to - I just want to make that point. This is not a good war - far from it. They are young people involved in it, from both sides, but most of them did choose that position. (I know a handful of ROTC folks, and they seem to like this war. I don't understand why, but they're the ones that might be fighting one day so... *shrug*)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: uNblessed Citrus on April 17, 2005, 09:01:04 pm


Quote:
Well, honestly, the only reason that Bush supports the abstinence only plan is because it is definitley very safe compared to everything else.


Do you honestly think that a sixteen year old is going to listen to someone say "SEX IS BAD." and call it a day? No. I think we should have a mix between Sex-ed and abstidence.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Kari_Grace on April 17, 2005, 09:14:23 pm


Quote:
Do you honestly think that a sixteen year old is going to listen to someone say "SEX IS BAD." and call it a day? No. I think we should have a mix between Sex-ed and abstidence.

Well, here we have a health class that is sort of like sex education. However, they teach us there that abortion is the best way to make sure you don't catch STDs and things.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: I_LOVE_MY_BOYZ on April 17, 2005, 09:53:09 pm

lol, abortion? i think u got mixed up, kari. they teach us that abstinance is the best way. ;)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: The Used on April 17, 2005, 10:13:45 pm

It doesn't really matter what they teach kids, there still gonna go out and explore their bodies with other people. It's what humans do...I mean, yeah, they do teach how to do it safely, and how not to get all the sexual diseases out there, which is good.

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 18, 2005, 03:44:43 am

Good job my parents didn't keep to the abstinance thing otherwise I would'd be here or have my brothers and sisters. Well done Mama and Papa!!!

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: twoleafclover on April 19, 2005, 01:38:36 am

i knew this thread would start moral arguments.




Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: NiX on April 21, 2005, 07:32:35 am

...and spelling corrections
abstinance = abstinence ;)

Title: Re:Now I'm Officially Scared
Post by: Etaeb OLC on April 21, 2005, 08:42:13 am

;D Thanks ;D


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