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Title: Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films?
Post by: HobbitFancier on January 07, 2005, 04:16:18 pm

This thread is for those Tolkienites who have read the books. It's been a while since there's been some healthy LotR book-talk on these forums, so I'd like to revive it, for at least a couple days.

Now that we've all seen every version of the movie that we're ever going to see, we know everything that Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, and Philipa Boyens left in, added in, and left out.

What scene and/or character that didn't make the final cut into the films was your favorite? Or, which bit of the books did you miss seeing on the big screen the most? Did you ever really expect it to be put in there in the first place? If so, what was your reaction when you heard it wouldn't be seen at all?

I'll answer this question myself later.. I want to see what some others write, first.


Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: deenan on January 07, 2005, 08:48:59 pm

i'm still in the middle of reading the books, but of what i have read, i would have like to have seen tom bombadil. i would love to see what pete would have done with that character.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Rose on January 07, 2005, 11:05:45 pm

This was in the EE but I would have liked to have seen Eowyn and Faramir's relationship expanded a bit more.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: funky_monkey on January 08, 2005, 12:08:47 am

I would have liked to see Tom Bombadil as well, even though that part of the book bored me. ::)

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: tafika on January 08, 2005, 03:33:02 am

[quote author=Rose link=board=3;threadid=25031;start=0#msg797178 date=1105157145]
I would have liked to have seen Eowyn and Faramir's relationship expanded a bit more.
[/quote]

Yeah I was thinking that too Rose.

I was upset about one part not being in and then they put it in the extended version, so yay.
(Won't say which part incase some people haven't seen the EE yet. Don't want to spoil it for yous cos it's a pretty important part :-*)

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Cristiel on January 08, 2005, 05:18:39 am

I think I'd go for Tom Bomadil as well, I love that part in the books. But I had expected that they would cut that out of the films, it isn't essential for the story and it would only slow it down (the same for the sourcing of the shire part by the way). But I loved the reference they made to Bombadil and the old willow in TTT.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: freedom on January 08, 2005, 06:41:40 am

i would like to have seen the scouring of the shire, one thing i think the film's didn't show was how sauron's actions affected middle earth and the people in it.
in the film's its easy to believe that its just rohan and gondor

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Sugar84 on January 08, 2005, 07:40:18 am

i'd like to have seen when the hobbits at the end of the book go back to the Shire & Saruman is there (the sourcing of the shire? I think that was the name...), I love that part of the book

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Jenny Baggins on January 08, 2005, 08:05:28 am

[quote author=Cristiel link=board=3;threadid=25031;start=0#msg797238 date=1105179519]
I think I'd go for Tom Bomadil as well, I love that part in the books. But I had expected that they would cut that out of the films, it isn't essential for the story and it would only slow it down (the same for the sourcing of the shire part by the way). But I loved the reference they made to Bombadil and the old willow in TTT.
[/quote]


yeah. I agree they were the two things I was missed being in the film :'(
ohh well it was still great without them

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: mayadeprei on January 08, 2005, 09:00:40 am

that's an easy one, defenitely tom bombadil, it is a great chapter in the book, funny, touching and he's a good friend, to bad peter jackson left that chapter out...
i also think they could have showed more of galadrielle, her past and what she actually is, it isn't really clear i think that she is actually realy powerful...

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Rachel_04 on January 08, 2005, 06:53:59 pm

I suppose what I miss most is Sharkie's ending. Tom Bombadil would have been a nice addition as well. I would have liked to see the Wolf Men that come to help the Rohirrim get to Pelenor Fields. I just loved their whole mystic in the book and would have liked to have seen Jackson's interpretation of them.
To be honest I was more upset with some things they included in the movies that weren't in the book. I really like Liv Tyler and respect her as an actress but I did not like how they dealt with Arwen's character. For a character that is mentioned merely twice in the actual books she received an awful lot of screen time. My guess is that they felt they had to include more of a love story but really I believe it wasn't needed. All those minutes dedicated to Arwen and Aragorn 'dreaming' of each other could have been better spent on other characters and plot lines.
I don't understand why Peter had Fordo send Sam away on the stairs either. I am sure he has he reasons but I don't know them. They enter the tunel together do they not? I wonder why he changed it.
Also why was Faramir tempted by the ring in the movie? He wasn't in the book at all. He said straight out that he 'wouldn't pick it up if it lay on the side of the road' or something of the like.
Right well...I could go on. I do love these movies. I take them as Peter Jackson's version of events. Is it the 'real' way it happened? No. That belongs to Tolkien. Peter did what he wanted/needed to do to make them successful in the box office. I love them, but I wish I could sit down and just ask Mr. Jackson why he changed what he did.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: LittleDayDream on January 09, 2005, 03:51:08 pm

I love both the books and the movies but they are two totally different things for me, I rarely compare them... There were things I missed in the movies, but there were also things in the movies I missed in the books ;)

I really missed Tom Bombadil, he is my favourite character in the books, he is just so magical! But I however do understand why he didn't make it in the movies.

I also missed the battle for the Shire, it would also have made the movies longer, I would have loved it to last even longer :-[ Also my darling Merry and Pippin would have been able to show some more of their strength. But I love it that this is shown at least to a small extend in Galadriels mirror.

And oh yes, I quite agree with Rachel, the Wolf Men would have been a good addition too, I was expecting to see them. I love them in the books, they are so adorable!

I do not agree with the way Elrond is portrayed in the movies. Hugo Weaving does a good job, I absolutely respect him for his work, but I couldn't help being truely disappointed about Elrond. He is so wise and knowledgeable (is that even a word?) and would not try to make everything more difficult for everybody like he does in the movies. HE actually is the person Gandalf asks for advice. I always perceive him as slightly evil... But maybe that is just me.

I absolutely adore Galadriel and I wish we could have seen more of her.

:)
xxx

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: deenan on January 09, 2005, 04:54:37 pm


Quote:
I don't understand why Peter had Fordo send Sam away on the stairs either. I am sure he has he reasons but I don't know them. They enter the tunel together do they not? I wonder why he changed it.



in the commentary and the appendices of the dvd, they said the reason they had frodo and sam separate was because they felt gollum was trying to separate them and they wanted gollum to succeed. and they wanted frodo to go in the cave alone. not sure why they had to have that, but they did.

anyway, sam showed up to save the day.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Celebrian on January 09, 2005, 06:05:23 pm

Rachel - I absolutely agree about the changes made to separate Frodo and Sam and with Faramir. My memory of some of the commentaries and documentaries (not in ROTK since I haven't had a chance to go through those yet) is that they were concerned that there was not enough dramatic tension to maintain emotional interest in the storyline for the movie. Things that work in the book apparently didn't seem to work in film. So I understand his decisions and I loved the movies, but I really like both of those storylines the way they are in the books.

As for Arwen, I understand why they had to give her more of a role (but how the heck did Liv Tyler get third billing - before Viggo, Sean, etc.???), but I love the race to the ford scene in the book where it is Frodo riding alone and he is the one who has the line something like "If you want me, come and take me." (that is not a real quote, I am going from memory). I think it is a great moment for Frodo, showing his strength and bravery. Too bad they didn't give it too Elijah.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Rachel_04 on January 10, 2005, 02:11:42 am

[quote author=deenan (O.L.C.) link=board=3;threadid=25031;start=0#msg798082 date=1105307677]
in the commentary and the appendices of the dvd, they said the reason they had frodo and sam separate was because they felt gollum was trying to separate them and they wanted gollum to succeed. and they wanted frodo to go in the cave alone. not sure why they had to have that, but they did.

anyway, sam showed up to save the day.
[/quote]

Fair enough. They wanted to have Gollum succeed. I suppose I can understand that! Thanks for the clarification.

[quote author=Celebrian link=board=3;threadid=25031;start=0#msg798132 date=1105311923]
Rachel - I absolutely agree about the changes made to separate Frodo and Sam and with Faramir. My memory of some of the commentaries and documentaries (not in ROTK since I haven't had a chance to go through those yet) is that they were concerned that there was not enough dramatic tension to maintain emotional interest in the storyline for the movie. Things that work in the book apparently didn't seem to work in film. So I understand his decisions and I loved the movies, but I really like both of those storylines the way they are in the books.

As for Arwen, I understand why they had to give her more of a role (but how the heck did Liv Tyler get third billing - before Viggo, Sean, etc.???), but I love the race to the ford scene in the book where it is Frodo riding alone and he is the one who has the line something like "If you want me, come and take me." (that is not a real quote, I am going from memory). I think it is a great moment for Frodo, showing his strength and bravery. Too bad they didn't give it too Elijah.
[/quote]

Oh I agree. That is such a great moment for Frodo. I would have loved to have seen it in the film.
I remember being so shocked when I heart Liv Tyler's name atttached to the project. I mean, it is largely an all boys movie. I didn't understand what role she would have that received third billing. It certainly couldn't be a very large one. Nevertheless they did it the best way they knew how. Who am I to say my ideas or thoughts are best? *lol*

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Cristiel on January 10, 2005, 04:49:17 am

[quote]To be honest I was more upset with some things they included in the movies that weren't in the book. I really like Liv Tyler and respect her as an actress but I did not like how they dealt with Arwen's character. For a character that is mentioned merely twice in the actual books she received an awful lot of screen time. My guess is that they felt they had to include more of a love story but really I believe it wasn't needed. All those minutes dedicated to Arwen and Aragorn 'dreaming' of each other could have been better spent on other characters and plot lines.
[/quote]

Book and film are two completely different things and this is a very good example to show this. In a book you can talk about a character in the beginning and not speak of it again until the end (like Tolkien did with Arwen). But this does not work in film, people don't accept that. So that's the reason why Peter Jackson decided to use flashbacks to show something more about the relationship between Arwen and Aragorn and how important she is to him. They did not make this stuff up, the additional material comes from the appendicis of the book.


Quote:
Also why was Faramir tempted by the ring in the movie? He wasn't in the book at all. He said straight out that he 'wouldn't pick it up if it lay on the side of the road' or something of the like.


This has been explained by Peter, Fran and Philippa on the commentary of the EE of TTT. The reason for making this change in Faramir's character is because they felt that the thread and corruptive effect of the ring is not believable if you have a character that is not at all tempted to take it. The ring is said to corrupt people and it looses that strength when someone shows up and says he doesn't want it. I think it made a lot of sense.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Rachel_04 on January 10, 2005, 03:29:28 pm

[quote author=Cristiel link=board=3;threadid=25031;start=15#msg798377 date=1105350557]
[quote]To be honest I was more upset with some things they included in the movies that weren't in the book. I really like Liv Tyler and respect her as an actress but I did not like how they dealt with Arwen's character. For a character that is mentioned merely twice in the actual books she received an awful lot of screen time. My guess is that they felt they had to include more of a love story but really I believe it wasn't needed. All those minutes dedicated to Arwen and Aragorn 'dreaming' of each other could have been better spent on other characters and plot lines.
[/quote]

Book and film are two completely different things and this is a very good example to show this. In a book you can talk about a character in the beginning and not speak of it again until the end (like Tolkien did with Arwen). But this does not work in film, people don't accept that. So that's the reason why Peter Jackson decided to use flashbacks to show something more about the relationship between Arwen and Aragorn and how important she is to him. They did not make this stuff up, the additional material comes from the appendicis of the book.


Quote:
Also why was Faramir tempted by the ring in the movie? He wasn't in the book at all. He said straight out that he 'wouldn't pick it up if it lay on the side of the road' or something of the like.


This has been explained by Peter, Fran and Philippa on the commentary of the EE of TTT. The reason for making this change in Faramir's character is because they felt that the thread and corruptive effect of the ring is not believable if you have a character that is not at all tempted to take it. The ring is said to corrupt people and it looses that strength when someone shows up and says he doesn't want it. I think it made a lot of sense.
[/quote]

I realize they did not make the Arwen/Aragorn story up. But they certainly took many liberties with it. For instance Arwen coming to take wounded Frodo to Rivendell; Arwen being the one pushing for the shards of Narsil to be reforged. I understand characters, plot lines, ideas that work well in print may not translate well into film. I was simply expressing my opinion that personally I didn't care for her expanded role in the movie.

As for Faramir, I look at it differently. Instead of seeing Faramir's rejection of the Ring as a weakness of the ring or as a downplay of the Ring's strengh and power, I see it as a testament to the strenght of Faramir's character. As a contrast to Boromir's temptation, I see Faramir's honor. Aragorn doesn't show temptation to the Ring as far as I can judge from the films, so is it so far fetched that Faramir can withstand it as well?
As I mentioned in previous posts, I love the movies for what they are; Adaptations of Tolkien's Works. Film and Print are two very different mediums and I grasp that changes had to be made. I just question some of them.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: HobbitFancier on January 10, 2005, 10:11:32 pm

[quote author=Rachel_04 link=board=3;threadid=25031;start=15#msg798620 date=1105388968]

As for Faramir, I look at it differently. Instead of seeing Faramir's rejection of the Ring as a weakness of the ring or as a downplay of the Ring's strengh and power, I see it as a testament to the strenght of Faramir's character. As a contrast to Boromir's temptation, I see Faramir's honor. Aragorn doesn't show temptation to the Ring as far as I can judge from the films, so is it so far fetched that Faramir can withstand it as well?
[/quote]

Before adding my thoughts on my topic, I wanted to reply to this.

Yes, Faramir's rejection of the Ring does indeed show his strength, in comparision to his brother's weakness to it. But in the films, the whole story revolves around the Ring being pure evil - pure corruptive evil, and no one totally escapes it. You can't have Faramir come in and not be affected. I don't care how much of his character's "goodness" you want to show, that's not the way to do it. It would make it seem like Gollum, Frodo, and even Sam were weak, because they were corrupted/deeply affected by the Ring. If Faramir could ignore it, even if it "lay by the highway" so easily, it wouldn't make sense for it to take over others so easily.

As for Aragorn.. give it a chance, and I think the Ring may have played with his mind a bit, too. It did speak to him a few times, do you remember? It definitely had some effect on him, but he was only tempted by it for seconds at a time, and he was able to master that temptation. But the Ring is wholly evil - no one, I don't think, could have resisted it forever.


With that said, here are my favorite bits that were left out:

No matter how pointless/random the part in the book may have seemed, I love the chapters about Tom Bombadil and Goldberry. The hobbits spending time with them was like going into a whole other world, even though they came from such a unique and foreign world to begin with. I loved Tom's riddle-speech, and the descriptions of his froliking through the forest. And Goldberry.. I would have liked to see who they would've gotten to play her! But I can totally understand why it was ommitted.

I also missed some of the random elf bits. Like Gildor and his traveling companions, who Frodo meets on his way out of the Shire. Gildor is actually the one who tells him about the Ringwraiths and all that.

I missed Glorfindel, too, but I forgave Pete when I found myself really liking Arwen's character. I don't care what any of you say, and I don't care how "untrue" to the books it was - I like Arwen. I would have loved to see Glorfindel, yes, but I like Arwen enough that I don't hold a grude over it or anything.

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: Emmi on January 11, 2005, 01:46:41 am

Tom Bombadil and the barrowdowns were the things I missed most in the movies (I understand why they were taken out....but still)

At first I was upset about the part Arwen got in the movies... but it is talked about in the appendices, and it influenced a lot of what Aragorn did in the books. SO I'm OK with in now lol.

I liked the hobbits calling Aragorn "Strider" in the books though. I suppose they always called him Aragorn in the movies for clarification, but I though that the hobbits innocence of such things was very sweet :)

Title: Re:Which scene and/or character were you most upset to see left out of the films
Post by: TotalGeek on January 11, 2005, 09:31:10 pm

Goldberry and Tom. For sure.


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